1 00:00:06,060 --> 00:00:07,771 Right! Hello, everyone! 2 00:00:08,607 --> 00:00:10,489 The clock is running. 3 00:00:11,223 --> 00:00:14,579 Thank you to Wikidata for the opportunity to speak here today. 4 00:00:14,579 --> 00:00:17,962 I will be talking about reinstating female artists to the cultural record. 5 00:00:18,622 --> 00:00:20,890 First off, what am I doing here? 6 00:00:20,890 --> 00:00:23,786 I work for an organization called digiS, 7 00:00:23,786 --> 00:00:27,272 which is the Forschungs-und Kompetenzzentrum Digitalisierung Berlin 8 00:00:27,272 --> 00:00:29,430 We are a state-funded body. 9 00:00:29,430 --> 00:00:31,422 We're based in the Zuse Institute in Berlin. 10 00:00:31,422 --> 00:00:35,902 which is part of the high-performance computing network in Germany. 11 00:00:35,902 --> 00:00:39,088 We are involved with GLAMs, with cultural institutions in Berlin, 12 00:00:39,828 --> 00:00:45,017 helping them get their analog treasures online, 13 00:00:45,017 --> 00:00:49,135 digitized online, making high-quality metadata. 14 00:00:49,135 --> 00:00:52,811 And one of our major focuses is also long-term digital preservation. 15 00:00:52,811 --> 00:00:54,855 So, we assist them with all of that, 16 00:00:54,855 --> 00:00:56,818 And as I said, it's state-funded, 17 00:00:56,818 --> 00:00:58,304 and with a focus on Berlin, 18 00:00:58,304 --> 00:01:00,348 so we work with Berlin institutions. 19 00:01:02,023 --> 00:01:03,713 Our standard operating procedure 20 00:01:03,713 --> 00:01:06,068 is that we take the metadata 21 00:01:06,068 --> 00:01:09,968 that the cultural institutions have produced 22 00:01:09,968 --> 00:01:12,763 and that is ingested into the Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek. 23 00:01:12,763 --> 00:01:15,376 That's our main focus. 24 00:01:15,376 --> 00:01:19,519 And then on into Europeana if the metadata is appropriately licensed. 25 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:22,810 Not all the institutions put out their metadata with CC0. 26 00:01:23,626 --> 00:01:25,661 But that's our standard route. 27 00:01:25,661 --> 00:01:28,784 But we're always looking at new ways to present data, 28 00:01:28,784 --> 00:01:32,300 because a lot of the museums and cultural institutions we work with, 29 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:33,887 archives as well, 30 00:01:33,887 --> 00:01:36,747 sometimes focus a bit too much on putting the data on a website. 31 00:01:36,747 --> 00:01:39,069 You've got to realize that we're dealing with institutions, 32 00:01:39,069 --> 00:01:41,219 sometimes very small institutions in Berlin, 33 00:01:41,219 --> 00:01:43,708 where there's just one or two people working. 34 00:01:44,228 --> 00:01:46,231 They're really happy if they've just got a website. 35 00:01:46,231 --> 00:01:49,164 If we start coming to them and saying, "Hey! Start producing your metadata 36 00:01:49,164 --> 00:01:52,714 on LIDO or Metsmart or whatever," they tend to have a bit of a crisis, 37 00:01:52,714 --> 00:01:54,510 but that's why we've got this funding program 38 00:01:54,510 --> 00:01:55,886 to try and help them through it, 39 00:01:55,886 --> 00:01:58,434 because we also would like the data that they produce 40 00:01:58,434 --> 00:02:00,044 to be usable for machines, 41 00:02:00,044 --> 00:02:03,672 to really leverage the power of the semantic web and link data. 42 00:02:04,672 --> 00:02:07,616 Which is why we became interested in looking at Wikidata, 43 00:02:07,616 --> 00:02:10,325 because some of our partners were actually using Wikidata already, 44 00:02:10,325 --> 00:02:11,569 pretty much as a resource. 45 00:02:11,569 --> 00:02:15,641 They weren't inputting any data, but to make their whole... 46 00:02:17,824 --> 00:02:21,054 collection management easier, they would then collect to Wikidata 47 00:02:21,054 --> 00:02:23,990 to save them the trouble of inputting everything 48 00:02:23,990 --> 00:02:27,573 and that's how we ended up with the *Berliner Malweiber*, 49 00:02:27,573 --> 00:02:28,986 as they are called. 50 00:02:29,997 --> 00:02:31,904 So, *Malweiber* is a pejorative term. 51 00:02:32,330 --> 00:02:34,839 It just means "Painting Women," 52 00:02:35,224 --> 00:02:38,544 and it was used to refer to women artists who were not taken seriously 53 00:02:38,544 --> 00:02:42,392 by the male-dominated academe at the turn of the last century. 54 00:02:42,962 --> 00:02:44,465 These were women who were painting, 55 00:02:44,465 --> 00:02:47,424 but they weren't allowed to study at any universities 56 00:02:47,424 --> 00:02:50,009 or any higher education institutions. 57 00:02:50,009 --> 00:02:52,247 They were allowed to maybe go to painting schools, 58 00:02:52,247 --> 00:02:55,079 but they were producing a lot of work. 59 00:02:55,079 --> 00:02:57,089 Some of the artists that we've got in the database 60 00:02:57,089 --> 00:03:01,753 are early 1850's as well, but most of it was around the turn of the century 61 00:03:01,753 --> 00:03:03,946 So, this is Anna Bernhardi's self-portrait 62 00:03:03,946 --> 00:03:06,316 from 1891, I think. 63 00:03:08,476 --> 00:03:10,569 In Berlin, the first time women were admitted 64 00:03:10,569 --> 00:03:13,404 to the Schule der Kunst was 1919. 65 00:03:13,404 --> 00:03:15,806 So, it took a while before they got any recognition 66 00:03:15,806 --> 00:03:17,574 for the work that they were doing. 67 00:03:17,574 --> 00:03:20,951 So, the Stadtmuseum in Berlin, in 2016, had a temporary exhibition 68 00:03:20,951 --> 00:03:23,120 called "Berlin -- Stadt der Frauen," 69 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,595 where they tried to readdress this imbalance a bit 70 00:03:25,595 --> 00:03:28,418 and to showcase a lot of the work that they have-- 71 00:03:28,418 --> 00:03:30,329 the Stadtmuseum has their artworks-- 72 00:03:30,329 --> 00:03:33,325 and to actually put on an exhibition for them. 73 00:03:33,325 --> 00:03:37,525 Of the 20 women who remained the focus of the exhibition, 74 00:03:37,525 --> 00:03:39,186 most of them are already quite famous, 75 00:03:39,186 --> 00:03:42,313 but there were still quite a few artworks in the museum 76 00:03:42,313 --> 00:03:45,492 that are from lesser-known artists. 77 00:03:47,724 --> 00:03:51,131 And that's why, as part of this program-- 78 00:03:51,131 --> 00:03:53,478 this is the website from digiS-- 79 00:03:53,478 --> 00:03:56,871 there was a program in 2016 or a project by the Stadtmuseum 80 00:03:56,871 --> 00:04:00,147 to then digitize a further 215 of their paintings 81 00:04:00,147 --> 00:04:01,532 and produce metadata to that. 82 00:04:01,532 --> 00:04:03,742 So, that was the basis of our work. 83 00:04:04,642 --> 00:04:06,995 So, standard operating procedure: 84 00:04:06,995 --> 00:04:11,577 we announced the ingest on the Wikidata Import website. 85 00:04:11,577 --> 00:04:14,014 It was actually the old site. They've changed the way now. 86 00:04:14,394 --> 00:04:15,721 And happily... 87 00:04:18,751 --> 00:04:21,101 ...cleaned up the data as much as they could in OpenRefine 88 00:04:21,101 --> 00:04:23,568 because I was dealing with a dataset that had been edited 89 00:04:23,568 --> 00:04:27,408 by about three different employees of the museum. 90 00:04:27,408 --> 00:04:29,659 So, you notice immediately how great it would be 91 00:04:29,659 --> 00:04:32,157 if people would use controlled vocabularies and stuff like that 92 00:04:32,157 --> 00:04:36,525 because for materials and techniques there were very often different words used 93 00:04:36,525 --> 00:04:38,743 to describe exactly the same concept. 94 00:04:38,743 --> 00:04:40,543 I did a whole lot of cleaning up, 95 00:04:40,543 --> 00:04:43,646 checked for which artists were already existing in Wikidata, 96 00:04:43,646 --> 00:04:45,794 which had to be added new. 97 00:04:45,794 --> 00:04:49,797 All of this was uploaded, and then tragedy struck, 98 00:04:50,823 --> 00:04:56,621 because for a lot of these artists I had no external references. 99 00:04:56,621 --> 00:04:59,825 I do not have any reference in the GND, the German Authority Control. 100 00:05:02,929 --> 00:05:06,724 And so, the only place I could enter their data was in Wikidata. 101 00:05:06,724 --> 00:05:08,932 They didn't exist anywhere else. 102 00:05:08,932 --> 00:05:13,377 And Wikidata admin, quite rightly, deleted 23 of the artists 103 00:05:13,377 --> 00:05:15,242 that I had added, by saying, 104 00:05:15,242 --> 00:05:19,378 "No source, no sitelink, no backlink, no data to understand who they are." 105 00:05:19,378 --> 00:05:21,582 I waited a while, then I canceled. 106 00:05:21,582 --> 00:05:25,138 So, I engaged in a discussion with this admin 107 00:05:25,138 --> 00:05:30,740 and he or she very kindly restored the items that had been deleted, 108 00:05:31,430 --> 00:05:33,866 which gave me the opportunity to say, 109 00:05:33,866 --> 00:05:36,264 "From my point of view, I did a bit of calculating back then, 110 00:05:36,264 --> 00:05:38,526 I may be wrong; this is a year ago now. 111 00:05:38,526 --> 00:05:40,195 There were 15 million items. 112 00:05:40,195 --> 00:05:42,079 Of those, a million had been deleted. 113 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:44,274 That's about 2% of Wikidata." 114 00:05:44,274 --> 00:05:47,028 [Arguing], I realized today that in the earlier session 115 00:05:47,028 --> 00:05:50,361 we'd say that Wikidata was having a resource problem. Good. 116 00:05:50,361 --> 00:05:52,120 We need bigger machines. 117 00:05:52,750 --> 00:05:54,289 But it would be interesting to say, 118 00:05:54,289 --> 00:05:58,071 maybe the notability criteria should be made even more inclusive 119 00:05:58,612 --> 00:06:02,149 if it's clearly spam or vandalism-- yes, that's not an issue-- 120 00:06:02,149 --> 00:06:05,062 but there may be some items that are a little bit on the borderline 121 00:06:05,062 --> 00:06:08,324 and maybe Wikidata would be an interesting place to store that data, 122 00:06:08,324 --> 00:06:12,212 or Wikibase, if we're going to see some other options 123 00:06:12,212 --> 00:06:13,787 of what we can do with it. 124 00:06:13,787 --> 00:06:16,536 So, a suggestion would be to set up some sort of arbitration process, 125 00:06:16,536 --> 00:06:19,758 because what annoyed me a little bit about having my items deleted 126 00:06:19,758 --> 00:06:22,985 was the fact that I wasn't really given a chance to argue my case 127 00:06:22,985 --> 00:06:24,670 in any way, shape, or form. 128 00:06:24,670 --> 00:06:27,932 and it would have been nice if someone gave me the opportunity just to say, 129 00:06:27,932 --> 00:06:31,915 "Hang on! This is actually real data," and explain the situation. 130 00:06:31,915 --> 00:06:34,886 On Wikipedia, we have pages very often with a banner on the top: 131 00:06:34,886 --> 00:06:36,193 "This page has some issues." 132 00:06:36,193 --> 00:06:38,499 Maybe we could think of something similar for Wikidata, 133 00:06:38,499 --> 00:06:40,567 but I do not know how realistic that suggestion is. 134 00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:45,561 It was just something I thought that might make people be more open 135 00:06:45,561 --> 00:06:48,683 to putting their work into Wikidata and not be too terrified 136 00:06:48,683 --> 00:06:51,139 that their work is going to be somehow deleted at some point. 137 00:06:51,139 --> 00:06:53,750 I'll just remind you what the Wikidata criteria are. 138 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:57,503 Let me scroll. 139 00:06:57,503 --> 00:06:59,930 This is not my computer, and I am left-handed, 140 00:06:59,930 --> 00:07:01,667 so I'm struggling here a bit. 141 00:07:04,087 --> 00:07:05,649 I might just... 142 00:07:06,579 --> 00:07:08,279 ...use my left hand! 143 00:07:11,859 --> 00:07:13,306 Let me scroll. Yes! 144 00:07:13,306 --> 00:07:15,343 Ah! Of course! Windows. 145 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:17,805 There we go! 146 00:07:17,805 --> 00:07:20,871 So, if it refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable concept 147 00:07:22,471 --> 00:07:25,122 or material entity, the entity must be notable in the sense 148 00:07:25,122 --> 00:07:28,002 that it can be described using serious and publicly available references. 149 00:07:28,002 --> 00:07:29,243 So, this was part of our battle 150 00:07:29,243 --> 00:07:33,914 in how can we get a reference for an artist 151 00:07:33,914 --> 00:07:38,877 who was excluded by design from any formal record. 152 00:07:38,877 --> 00:07:41,043 It's quite a complicated situation. 153 00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:44,524 Now, how do I get out of that page? 154 00:07:45,552 --> 00:07:47,266 Going back to the left hand. 155 00:07:48,646 --> 00:07:52,223 Finding the mouse. Hello, mouse? Anyone seen a mouse? 156 00:07:53,288 --> 00:07:54,688 (chuckles) 157 00:07:55,353 --> 00:07:56,722 Ah! There we go! 158 00:07:57,072 --> 00:07:58,210 Let's go back. 159 00:07:58,210 --> 00:08:02,076 So, at this stage, there are still 19 artists without a GND, 160 00:08:02,076 --> 00:08:04,963 so this is the German Authority Control. 161 00:08:04,963 --> 00:08:08,822 So, these are all German artists, or Berlin artists as well. 162 00:08:08,822 --> 00:08:13,106 So, one would hope that they would qualify for a GND ID, 163 00:08:13,106 --> 00:08:15,079 but at this stage they do not have one. 164 00:08:16,149 --> 00:08:19,504 I have artists, for example, like Ida Maurer-Hahn... 165 00:08:20,559 --> 00:08:22,061 (humming) 166 00:08:22,615 --> 00:08:23,615 There we go! 167 00:08:24,815 --> 00:08:27,229 ...where I can really only just say this much about her. 168 00:08:27,229 --> 00:08:30,954 I know she's human, I know she's female, and I know she's a painter. 169 00:08:30,954 --> 00:08:32,944 That's all I know. I'm not the domain expert. 170 00:08:32,944 --> 00:08:34,805 This is data I got from the museum. 171 00:08:34,805 --> 00:08:37,485 The museum is busy setting up all sorts of other things, 172 00:08:37,485 --> 00:08:39,351 so it's a little bit of a battle for them too 173 00:08:39,351 --> 00:08:40,833 to allocate resources to this, 174 00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:42,401 and we're stuck in the middle of digiS, 175 00:08:42,401 --> 00:08:45,609 trying to make sure that good quality metadata is being created, 176 00:08:45,999 --> 00:08:51,405 and doing our best to ensure that it's done. 177 00:08:54,375 --> 00:08:55,521 There we go! 178 00:08:55,521 --> 00:08:57,358 And this is, for example, in some cases, 179 00:08:57,358 --> 00:09:03,280 even though I may not have the metadata or an external reference, 180 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,313 I have a painting, 181 00:09:04,313 --> 00:09:05,772 and I can at least link to that painting. 182 00:09:05,772 --> 00:09:08,194 And for some of the paintings that are online at Stadtmuseum-- 183 00:09:08,194 --> 00:09:11,034 but I won't-- well, maybe we can explain this here. 184 00:09:11,034 --> 00:09:14,020 This is what the metadata looks like for one of the paintings, *instance of.* 185 00:09:14,020 --> 00:09:17,259 I have all the data that the museum has about this artwork; 186 00:09:17,259 --> 00:09:19,881 however, I have no online link to any of this stuff. 187 00:09:19,881 --> 00:09:20,946 I can't reference it 188 00:09:20,946 --> 00:09:23,503 because it's in their collection management system. 189 00:09:24,063 --> 00:09:27,000 It's not available online yet, so how am I going to do this? 190 00:09:30,990 --> 00:09:33,615 There is hope. Do not despair! 191 00:09:37,535 --> 00:09:40,778 The German Authority Control is run by the German National Library, 192 00:09:40,778 --> 00:09:42,696 the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek, 193 00:09:42,696 --> 00:09:45,293 and they have a project running called GND4C, 194 00:09:45,293 --> 00:09:47,738 which is the GND for culture data. 195 00:09:48,438 --> 00:09:50,744 And, in fact, I presented on this topic a few days ago 196 00:09:50,744 --> 00:09:54,520 at the annual meeting of the expert group on documentation 197 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,462 of the Museums Federation of Germany, 198 00:09:57,462 --> 00:09:59,762 and there were people in the audience from the GND4C 199 00:09:59,762 --> 00:10:04,743 who have now said they will help me get at least these 19 artists who have no GND 200 00:10:04,743 --> 00:10:08,271 to at least get their IDs, so that we can start the process of-- 201 00:10:08,271 --> 00:10:11,448 as it has been said in another presentation today, 202 00:10:12,408 --> 00:10:15,233 the moment this data is online in Wikidata and someone does a query 203 00:10:15,233 --> 00:10:18,594 and says, "Hey, here's an artist, but there's not much data about them. 204 00:10:18,594 --> 00:10:20,931 Maybe there's a story to tell here, and maybe we'd be interested 205 00:10:20,931 --> 00:10:22,966 in doing some research and to expand that." 206 00:10:22,966 --> 00:10:26,694 That's been the amazing effect of uploading a lot of this data 207 00:10:26,694 --> 00:10:30,073 when there has been IDs or there has been the ability to leverage 208 00:10:30,073 --> 00:10:31,815 all the link data power, 209 00:10:31,815 --> 00:10:33,632 that all of a sudden, so much more information 210 00:10:33,632 --> 00:10:37,035 has been collected about these artists who in the past had really been ignored. 211 00:10:41,478 --> 00:10:43,521 What are the lessons we can learn from all of this? 212 00:10:43,521 --> 00:10:46,168 How can we improve on past performance? 213 00:10:48,658 --> 00:10:52,787 I think it's difficult to find the right name to describe this. 214 00:10:52,787 --> 00:10:55,336 There is such a thing as the Chief Data Officer. 215 00:10:55,336 --> 00:10:58,068 It's very much a commercial and business enterprise sort of thing, 216 00:10:58,068 --> 00:11:04,509 but what we noticed is that in the cultural and heritage institutions 217 00:11:04,509 --> 00:11:07,507 which have a personnel and resource problem anyway, 218 00:11:07,507 --> 00:11:09,769 we would like to have a Chief Data Officer, 219 00:11:09,769 --> 00:11:13,917 at least someone who is responsible there for making sure that the metadata 220 00:11:13,917 --> 00:11:16,127 is of a high standard and that it's not just-- 221 00:11:16,127 --> 00:11:18,795 There's a role in Germany called the *data redakteur*, 222 00:11:18,795 --> 00:11:21,470 I don't know what the English translation is. I could not find it. 223 00:11:21,470 --> 00:11:22,976 But someone who is mainly responsible 224 00:11:22,976 --> 00:11:25,875 to make sure that there are no spelling mistakes in the data 225 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:27,555 or that it's of a relatively good quality. 226 00:11:27,555 --> 00:11:29,605 But we actually need a bit more. 227 00:11:29,605 --> 00:11:31,598 And a rose by any name would smell as sweet, 228 00:11:31,598 --> 00:11:35,188 so I don't really care what we call it. I care more about what they do. 229 00:11:35,188 --> 00:11:37,506 And what they need to do is to make strategic decisions 230 00:11:37,506 --> 00:11:38,762 regarding this data usage. 231 00:11:38,762 --> 00:11:42,043 Someone actually in the institution needs to sit down and say, 232 00:11:42,043 --> 00:11:44,401 "It's important that we get online because..." 233 00:11:44,401 --> 00:11:46,831 I unfortunately missed the presentation by The Met today 234 00:11:46,831 --> 00:11:50,245 to see what they've done with their data once they've uploaded it into Wikidata. 235 00:11:50,849 --> 00:11:55,886 But if we can explain to the institutions why it's important, 236 00:11:55,886 --> 00:11:57,554 and they can see the reason for this, 237 00:11:57,554 --> 00:11:59,607 then maybe they will be able to make funds available 238 00:11:59,607 --> 00:12:01,823 or resources available to have someone to take this task 239 00:12:01,823 --> 00:12:04,614 of actually realizing a museum or a cultural heritage institution 240 00:12:04,614 --> 00:12:06,360 is really a data provider. 241 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,365 They need the architecture to provide data. 242 00:12:08,365 --> 00:12:10,652 They need to know who wants to use the data. 243 00:12:10,652 --> 00:12:14,097 Is it digital humanist researches? Is it just the general public? 244 00:12:14,097 --> 00:12:16,050 They could have one central system 245 00:12:16,050 --> 00:12:19,297 that can maybe feed into their website and also have an API. 246 00:12:19,297 --> 00:12:23,436 And one of the issues with the DDB is they have an API, 247 00:12:23,436 --> 00:12:27,747 so the metadata that we uploaded into the DDB can be queried by an API. 248 00:12:27,747 --> 00:12:29,986 However, you need an API key before you do that. 249 00:12:30,826 --> 00:12:32,627 That makes Wikidata attractive again 250 00:12:32,627 --> 00:12:35,227 because I can just go to any Wikidata SPARQL endpoint 251 00:12:35,227 --> 00:12:36,955 and basically do my query. 252 00:12:37,425 --> 00:12:39,592 And we need to ensure high-quality data. 253 00:12:40,338 --> 00:12:42,080 That’s the beginning of this whole process. 254 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,980 Just for the 250 artworks that I uploaded, the data took so much work 255 00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:50,982 to try and massage it into a useful form that could be really great, 256 00:12:50,982 --> 00:12:53,694 to ensure data quality and that would be the basic things, 257 00:12:53,694 --> 00:12:57,533 the uniform measurement system and controlled vocabularies 258 00:12:57,533 --> 00:12:59,023 as much as possible. 259 00:12:59,023 --> 00:13:02,115 And all of this compliant with relevant metadata standards. 260 00:13:02,115 --> 00:13:05,173 We always bang the drum for standards, because the moment you use standards, 261 00:13:05,173 --> 00:13:08,895 you increase the ability to connect your data 262 00:13:08,895 --> 00:13:10,858 to other forms of data out there. 263 00:13:11,728 --> 00:13:14,339 And then to avoid some of the issues, 264 00:13:14,339 --> 00:13:16,261 because I can understand that Wikidata also says, 265 00:13:16,261 --> 00:13:18,279 "Look, we're not your data repository. 266 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:20,107 You can't just come here and dump your data." 267 00:13:20,107 --> 00:13:23,812 And the institutions, on the other hand, say, "Look, this is our curated data. 268 00:13:23,812 --> 00:13:26,004 This is stuff we spent years researching 269 00:13:26,004 --> 00:13:29,333 and spent many employee hours working on. 270 00:13:29,333 --> 00:13:31,107 We don't just want to upload that to Wikidata 271 00:13:31,107 --> 00:13:33,421 and have it overwritten or deleted at some point." 272 00:13:33,421 --> 00:13:35,809 So, I really like the idea of Wikibase. 273 00:13:35,809 --> 00:13:39,895 The idea that an institution could run its own Wikidata instance, 274 00:13:39,895 --> 00:13:42,533 where we really need to have a look and see if we can assist... 275 00:13:42,533 --> 00:13:44,439 Where's the pointy bit? 276 00:13:46,549 --> 00:13:47,889 ...is in this bit here. 277 00:13:47,889 --> 00:13:49,251 So, if you have an institution 278 00:13:49,251 --> 00:13:51,257 that has its own collection management system, 279 00:13:52,087 --> 00:13:55,149 we need to find a way, write scripts, and support it as much as possible, 280 00:13:55,149 --> 00:13:59,582 to as automatically as possible get data into their local Wikibase instance 281 00:13:59,582 --> 00:14:02,502 or an instance run by another government institution, 282 00:14:02,502 --> 00:14:06,768 perhaps like digiS-- but I can't make that prediction at this stage-- 283 00:14:07,258 --> 00:14:10,110 that could then be used by Wikidata in terms of a synchronized 284 00:14:10,110 --> 00:14:12,052 or a federated query. 285 00:14:12,052 --> 00:14:15,710 And all of these things can, of course, then use authority controls and so on. 286 00:14:15,710 --> 00:14:19,525 But if the institutions can be encouraged to set up their own Wikibases. 287 00:14:19,525 --> 00:14:22,229 10-15 years ago, very few museums had their own websites. 288 00:14:22,229 --> 00:14:23,755 I would hope that in five years 289 00:14:23,755 --> 00:14:25,610 more institutions would have their own Wikibase 290 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:27,714 or be prepared to use a Wikibase. 291 00:14:27,714 --> 00:14:29,256 And, of course, it gets interesting 292 00:14:29,256 --> 00:14:32,450 when the moment you input it into a system like that, 293 00:14:33,429 --> 00:14:34,973 issues with the data will arise 294 00:14:34,973 --> 00:14:37,742 that you can hopefully feed back into the collection management system 295 00:14:37,742 --> 00:14:39,936 to improve their data in general. 296 00:14:41,256 --> 00:14:44,370 So, in other words, something like a DIY Authority Control 297 00:14:44,370 --> 00:14:47,036 for the institution or even just a controlled vocabulary. 298 00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:50,656 If they just had a resource within their institution 299 00:14:50,656 --> 00:14:52,838 where they could say, "We're going to choose this term, 300 00:14:52,838 --> 00:14:55,298 we're not going to go through a long standardization process. 301 00:14:55,298 --> 00:14:57,420 Even if five years down the track 302 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,636 they decide it's the wrong term and they want to change the term, 303 00:14:59,636 --> 00:15:02,629 at least I have a clear idea what I'm talking about." 304 00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:03,890 It’s a start. 305 00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:07,454 But I have to say that this suggestion that I made 306 00:15:07,454 --> 00:15:12,279 was also met with quite a lot of skepticism at this conference, 307 00:15:12,279 --> 00:15:16,536 because I think the people in the audience have also had bad experiences 308 00:15:16,536 --> 00:15:17,936 trying to set up these systems. 309 00:15:17,936 --> 00:15:19,826 And there's the saying: 310 00:15:19,826 --> 00:15:22,999 "To err is human, but to really screw up, you need a computer." 311 00:15:22,999 --> 00:15:25,343 So I can imagine if you've got people 312 00:15:25,343 --> 00:15:27,741 trying to set up their own Wikibases, their own control vocabularies, 313 00:15:27,741 --> 00:15:30,849 a lot of things are going to go wrong, but it's a learning experience. 314 00:15:30,849 --> 00:15:34,161 And we hope that something good will come out of it in the end. 315 00:15:34,161 --> 00:15:35,667 This is something that was referenced 316 00:15:35,667 --> 00:15:41,184 in the Wikibase inspirational presentation this morning. 317 00:15:41,824 --> 00:15:45,323 The GND is now cooperating with Wikimedia 318 00:15:45,323 --> 00:15:47,731 to actually see how Wikibase can be used for it, 319 00:15:47,731 --> 00:15:52,152 because it's part of the whole GND4C, opening the very strictly controlled 320 00:15:52,152 --> 00:15:54,966 for libraries resource of the Authority Control to now say, 321 00:15:54,966 --> 00:15:58,137 "Hey, other GLAMS, when you use galleries, libraries, archives, and museums, 322 00:15:58,137 --> 00:16:00,532 also want to use this resource" 323 00:16:00,532 --> 00:16:03,721 GND4C is trying to see how they can actually make that happen. 324 00:16:04,001 --> 00:16:06,516 And one of the things they're exploring is Wikibase. 325 00:16:10,676 --> 00:16:13,746 And just the last point to say, 326 00:16:13,746 --> 00:16:15,431 if you're in Berlin on the 5th of December, 327 00:16:15,431 --> 00:16:17,562 and you'd like to come to the digiS Annual Conference, 328 00:16:17,562 --> 00:16:21,364 where every year our partners present their projects, it's fascinating. 329 00:16:21,364 --> 00:16:24,382 We've got a very broad spectrum. You're welcome to come along. 330 00:16:24,382 --> 00:16:27,561 Details there in German on the URL. 331 00:16:27,561 --> 00:16:29,154 Thank you for your attention. 332 00:16:30,045 --> 00:16:32,185 (applause) 333 00:16:34,217 --> 00:16:38,010 And I'll just point out, if you want, there are some interesting readings. 334 00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:39,896 This never loads for some reason, 335 00:16:39,896 --> 00:16:42,631 but it’s actually an article by Linda Nochlan 336 00:16:42,631 --> 00:16:45,829 about why there are no great women artists from 1971. 337 00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:48,509 It was republished a few years ago, online. 338 00:16:48,509 --> 00:16:51,018 The link there will work. It's a fascinating article. 339 00:16:51,018 --> 00:16:54,130 *Invisible women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men*, 340 00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:55,149 also fascinating. 341 00:16:55,149 --> 00:16:57,159 And this is a book about *Die Malweiber*. 342 00:16:57,159 --> 00:16:58,838 Right! 343 00:16:59,308 --> 00:17:00,763 (person 1) Can you show that... 344 00:17:00,763 --> 00:17:02,933 - Mm-hmm. Yup. - (person 1) ...[in writing]? 345 00:17:03,628 --> 00:17:05,124 Questions? 346 00:17:08,954 --> 00:17:12,458 (person 2) So, how did you initially find those women? 347 00:17:12,458 --> 00:17:14,908 Because they are in a museum database, I guess. 348 00:17:14,908 --> 00:17:16,880 How did they end up in the museum database? 349 00:17:17,395 --> 00:17:18,710 [inaudible] 350 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,015 So, the museum has artworks by these artists, 351 00:17:22,015 --> 00:17:25,566 so they basically got them in a storage facility somewhere, 352 00:17:25,566 --> 00:17:27,106 and they have it in their collection system 353 00:17:27,106 --> 00:17:28,969 saying this is this painting by this and this artist. 354 00:17:28,969 --> 00:17:30,162 So they've got that data. 355 00:17:30,162 --> 00:17:32,484 (person 2) Then you solve a notability problem, right? 356 00:17:33,094 --> 00:17:35,394 It would if it was online, but it's not online. 357 00:17:35,394 --> 00:17:36,839 This collection resource-- 358 00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:39,329 (person 3) [inaudible] been made public [inaudible]. 359 00:17:39,329 --> 00:17:40,329 Yeah, I can't-- 360 00:17:40,329 --> 00:17:41,855 (person 2) That's not needed, 361 00:17:41,855 --> 00:17:44,322 like if you referenced a book, that's also good enough. 362 00:17:44,322 --> 00:17:46,401 (person 3) You could reference an offline catalog. 363 00:17:46,401 --> 00:17:51,464 Yeah, but again it's a question of, well, I don't even have an offline catalog. 364 00:17:51,464 --> 00:17:54,668 I could maybe say it's the museum or whichever collection... 365 00:17:55,048 --> 00:17:57,221 (person 2) I was going to say, I understand it's a small museum, 366 00:17:57,221 --> 00:17:58,794 and maybe they don't have a very sophisticated-- 367 00:17:58,794 --> 00:18:01,101 Well, Stadtmuseum is not small, but, yeah. (chuckles) 368 00:18:01,101 --> 00:18:02,685 (person 2) Maybe they don't have the resources 369 00:18:02,685 --> 00:18:06,497 to really put up something sophisticated metadata-wise, 370 00:18:06,497 --> 00:18:11,252 but you could literally have them publish even a press release. 371 00:18:12,422 --> 00:18:16,028 Whatever mechanism they have of pushing data online that is by them, 372 00:18:16,028 --> 00:18:17,607 that is by the state museum, 373 00:18:17,607 --> 00:18:22,489 that can say, "Here is a list of women who were systematically excluded, 374 00:18:22,489 --> 00:18:24,806 and yet, here is what we know about them. 375 00:18:24,806 --> 00:18:26,629 And we say this as the state museum." 376 00:18:26,629 --> 00:18:28,452 That is a source. 377 00:18:28,452 --> 00:18:30,410 This was exactly the problem. 378 00:18:30,410 --> 00:18:32,751 So, they did have this exhibition that's online, 379 00:18:32,751 --> 00:18:36,116 but that's only 20 of, I think, 50 women artists. 380 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:38,482 (person 2) But they can say that about all of them. 381 00:18:38,482 --> 00:18:41,784 That's why I think Wikidata also relaxed the rules a bit, 382 00:18:41,784 --> 00:18:43,352 and let me keep that data in, 383 00:18:43,352 --> 00:18:46,167 because I had it all up in the Wikidata import page. 384 00:18:46,167 --> 00:18:47,979 But as I'm trying to say with Ida Maurer-Hahn, 385 00:18:47,979 --> 00:18:49,562 I don't have any external reference, 386 00:18:49,562 --> 00:18:52,084 and I hoped, though, just getting the GND IDs, 387 00:18:52,084 --> 00:18:53,639 we'll have an opportunity to... 388 00:18:53,639 --> 00:18:56,650 (person 2) I just wanted to mention, this is Andrew, 389 00:18:56,650 --> 00:19:01,190 and his talk was about The Met, 390 00:19:01,190 --> 00:19:03,095 the one I mentioned to you about this morning. 391 00:19:03,095 --> 00:19:05,017 - So you two should talk. - Fantastic! 392 00:19:05,017 --> 00:19:07,859 (person 2) Because he's also doing interesting things with museums, 393 00:19:08,379 --> 00:19:10,628 So, I just wanted to make sure you connect. 394 00:19:11,938 --> 00:19:14,681 And we should publish some of the artworks on Wikidata 395 00:19:14,681 --> 00:19:16,754 to make the data more complete. 396 00:19:16,754 --> 00:19:19,490 Well, I should also point out that some of the things we uploaded-- 397 00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:22,124 So, the Stadtmuseum is very focused at the moment 398 00:19:22,124 --> 00:19:24,796 on the Humboldt Forum, which is being set up in Berlin. 399 00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:26,469 Of these artworks that we digitized, 400 00:19:26,469 --> 00:19:28,701 some of them have now run into rights issues, 401 00:19:28,701 --> 00:19:30,933 some of them were taken offline again. 402 00:19:31,823 --> 00:19:33,392 The moment we're digitizing this stuff, 403 00:19:33,392 --> 00:19:36,195 half our work is really dealing with legal issues 404 00:19:36,195 --> 00:19:38,032 and trying to explain to the institutions. 405 00:19:38,032 --> 00:19:41,635 Because even if an artwork is in the public domain, 406 00:19:41,635 --> 00:19:43,745 when it's being digitized or photographed, 407 00:19:43,745 --> 00:19:46,091 certain rights are then ascribed to the person. 408 00:19:46,091 --> 00:19:47,417 (person 2) But to be on Wikidata, 409 00:19:47,417 --> 00:19:49,134 it doesn't have to be in the public domain. 410 00:19:49,134 --> 00:19:52,861 No, but it has to have a fairly unrestricted license. 411 00:19:52,861 --> 00:19:55,202 Not on Wikidata, sorry, but if I'm talking about the actual image. 412 00:19:55,202 --> 00:19:57,398 - Sorry, I thought you meant the image. - (person 2) I was talking about Wikidata. 413 00:19:57,398 --> 00:20:01,248 The metadata itself, that's all been put online. CC0, no problem. 414 00:20:08,148 --> 00:20:10,868 (person 4) Hi! Your sources don't have to be online. 415 00:20:10,868 --> 00:20:12,500 So, if they have a printed catalog, 416 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:15,625 whether it's an exhibition catalog, or a catalog of a whole collection, 417 00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:18,531 you can create an item about that publication 418 00:20:18,531 --> 00:20:20,731 and then use a *stated in* property 419 00:20:20,731 --> 00:20:22,021 to cite that. 420 00:20:22,021 --> 00:20:24,317 That's the problem. Not all the artists are in the catalog. 421 00:20:24,317 --> 00:20:25,321 They do have a catalog, 422 00:20:25,321 --> 00:20:27,685 but it's only 20 of 50, I think, women artists. 423 00:20:27,685 --> 00:20:29,001 That's the whole issue. 424 00:20:29,001 --> 00:20:34,352 They selected out of their whole collection of artists, 425 00:20:34,722 --> 00:20:37,362 they only selected 20 of those artists. 426 00:20:37,362 --> 00:20:41,401 So, there's still no written record of them anyway. 427 00:20:43,621 --> 00:20:46,657 Like I said, I mean, hopefully, if within the next few weeks 428 00:20:46,657 --> 00:20:49,530 I can get the GND IDs of the 19 missing artists, then... 429 00:20:49,530 --> 00:20:50,845 (person 4) And further than that, 430 00:20:50,845 --> 00:20:53,702 if you can state that a painting is in a collection, 431 00:20:53,702 --> 00:20:56,002 and an artist is the creator of that painting, 432 00:20:56,002 --> 00:20:58,516 or indeed the subject of the self-portrait painting, 433 00:20:58,516 --> 00:21:00,337 then I think that satisfies the requirements 434 00:21:00,337 --> 00:21:01,761 for inclusion in Wikidata. 435 00:21:01,761 --> 00:21:03,937 It seems to so far. No one has deleted them yet. 436 00:21:03,937 --> 00:21:05,202 Because that was that problem too. 437 00:21:05,202 --> 00:21:06,557 The reason why those things got deleted 438 00:21:06,557 --> 00:21:09,535 is there was a gap of a few months between when the artists were uploaded 439 00:21:09,535 --> 00:21:11,767 and when I could complete uploading the paintings. 440 00:21:11,767 --> 00:21:14,234 But, yeah, since all the paintings have been linked now too. 441 00:21:14,234 --> 00:21:17,017 But I don't have any of those like Ida Maurer-Hahn. 442 00:21:17,017 --> 00:21:20,211 They're just statements at the moment but without any references. 443 00:21:22,381 --> 00:21:24,058 Hopefully, that will change soon. 444 00:21:24,058 --> 00:21:26,720 (person 5) Hi. Thank you for your talk. 445 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,895 I have a question concerning the GLAM institution you mentioned. 446 00:21:30,895 --> 00:21:34,801 What do you think are their learnings on this project, 447 00:21:34,801 --> 00:21:38,610 because [inaudible] also have a lot of GLAM work, 448 00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:43,395 and then for me it's interesting to see what the institution is thinking 449 00:21:43,395 --> 00:21:47,089 about a collaboration with Wikidata for future work. 450 00:21:47,089 --> 00:21:49,749 I mean, you sound a bit disappointed. 451 00:21:49,749 --> 00:21:51,596 This is exactly the part where I need... 452 00:21:51,596 --> 00:21:55,083 I need to be able to show them what they can do with the data online, 453 00:21:55,083 --> 00:21:58,051 because at the moment it's a battle for us 454 00:21:58,051 --> 00:21:59,967 even just to get them to deliver structured metadata. 455 00:21:59,967 --> 00:22:01,315 So we work a lot with LIDO. 456 00:22:01,315 --> 00:22:03,679 That will be passed on to the Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek. 457 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:07,812 It's a huge battle to get any data into LIDO, for a start, 458 00:22:07,812 --> 00:22:11,333 and then we upload it to the DDB, which has its own issues. 459 00:22:11,333 --> 00:22:14,120 Then with Wikidata, I've sort of tried to show-- 460 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,969 We actually had Jason Evans two years ago give a presentation to say, 461 00:22:16,969 --> 00:22:19,686 "This is what you can do. This is what we've done in Wales." 462 00:22:19,686 --> 00:22:23,012 But every city has got its own speed and tempo. 463 00:22:23,012 --> 00:22:26,152 Hopefully, out of this Stadtmuseum with their data, 464 00:22:26,152 --> 00:22:27,628 we can start doing some interesting things, 465 00:22:27,628 --> 00:22:29,310 find some applications and other institutions 466 00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:30,954 that can maybe upload their data. 467 00:22:30,954 --> 00:22:32,955 But at the moment, the museums, the GLAMs-- 468 00:22:32,955 --> 00:22:34,205 it's just not on their radar, 469 00:22:34,205 --> 00:22:38,241 because they're so occupied with fundamental existential issues 470 00:22:38,241 --> 00:22:40,370 that, you know, linked data is for them like, 471 00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:42,540 "What the hell are you wasting my time with that for? 472 00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:45,119 I'm going to make sure I can pay my employees, 473 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,744 of which there's only one, for next year." 474 00:22:48,394 --> 00:22:49,477 But we try. 475 00:22:49,477 --> 00:22:51,001 That's our role as we see it too. 476 00:22:51,001 --> 00:22:53,095 This whole funding program is supposed to kind of... 477 00:22:53,095 --> 00:22:55,727 I mean, the other major thing is long-term digital preservation. 478 00:22:55,727 --> 00:22:57,447 We said, "Look, you can digitize this stuff, 479 00:22:57,447 --> 00:22:59,471 but having it on a hard drive is not good. 480 00:22:59,471 --> 00:23:01,157 You've got to have it into a proper system, 481 00:23:01,157 --> 00:23:04,057 where, in 100 years, someone can actually access this resource." 482 00:23:15,244 --> 00:23:18,321 (person 5) I feel your pain about the relevance 483 00:23:18,321 --> 00:23:21,344 because I ran into a lot of these same issues of the Wikipedia, 484 00:23:21,344 --> 00:23:24,891 especially the German language Wikipedia has these really strong relevance criteria 485 00:23:24,891 --> 00:23:26,385 that are absolutely observed 486 00:23:26,385 --> 00:23:30,229 and tend to exclude a lot of important information. 487 00:23:32,999 --> 00:23:36,002 Would it help to change the relevance criteria? 488 00:23:36,002 --> 00:23:38,305 Would that at all be possible? 489 00:23:38,305 --> 00:23:40,566 Because I'm afraid, of course, that people will be afraid 490 00:23:40,566 --> 00:23:43,683 that then "unnotable"-- whatever that means-- things 491 00:23:43,683 --> 00:23:45,551 would manage to get in. 492 00:23:46,819 --> 00:23:48,065 Well, this is it, I mean... 493 00:23:49,575 --> 00:23:50,595 (sighs) 494 00:23:50,595 --> 00:23:53,083 I think the moment someone makes an effort to upload something, 495 00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:54,781 it becomes notable to a degree, 496 00:23:54,781 --> 00:23:59,141 and I think the criteria at this stage, though, are actually quite flexible, 497 00:23:59,141 --> 00:24:03,531 but I do think you run into that issue of there are notability criteria... 498 00:24:04,081 --> 00:24:06,392 There is a process that has been put in place, 499 00:24:06,392 --> 00:24:08,420 but it still depends on what an admin does. 500 00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:10,508 At that time, when I got in touch with that admin, 501 00:24:10,508 --> 00:24:14,304 he or she had deleted 150,000 different items. 502 00:24:14,304 --> 00:24:17,813 So, there is a certain degree of arbitrariness in the whole process, 503 00:24:17,813 --> 00:24:20,072 because at least I could convince him to put it back on, 504 00:24:20,072 --> 00:24:21,927 but I know from the Wikidata mailing list 505 00:24:21,927 --> 00:24:24,197 there's quite a few people who ran into the same issue 506 00:24:24,197 --> 00:24:25,442 where stuff has been deleted. 507 00:24:25,442 --> 00:24:28,546 So, I think the solution is to go the route, as I understand, 508 00:24:28,546 --> 00:24:31,684 that Wikidata is proposing to of Wikibase installations. 509 00:24:31,684 --> 00:24:32,933 They're making it a lot easier. 510 00:24:32,933 --> 00:24:35,088 The Wikibase Docker is a lot easier to install. 511 00:24:35,088 --> 00:24:37,960 I tried to install it about a year ago and struggled, 512 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,215 and I managed to get an instance up and running 513 00:24:40,215 --> 00:24:43,631 and actually usable very easily with the Docker container. 514 00:24:43,631 --> 00:24:45,075 And I think that's the way to go. 515 00:24:45,075 --> 00:24:48,313 If you can get the institutions to see how easy it is to set it up. 516 00:24:48,313 --> 00:24:50,917 15 years ago, they didn't have websites. Now they have websites. 517 00:24:50,917 --> 00:24:52,448 And I would hope for Berlin, at least, 518 00:24:52,448 --> 00:24:54,150 that we can maybe get a Wikibase instance going 519 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:56,287 and get a few museums to upload their curated data, 520 00:24:56,287 --> 00:24:58,209 and then see how we can feed that into Wikidata. 521 00:24:58,209 --> 00:25:01,739 And then I think everyone's happy, I would hope, but yeah... 522 00:25:02,999 --> 00:25:06,567 (person 6) I'm going to ask a question you're unlikely to be able to answer. 523 00:25:06,567 --> 00:25:08,515 But I'm going to ask it anyway. 524 00:25:08,515 --> 00:25:12,906 I'm curious about the women whose artworks haven't been collected 525 00:25:12,906 --> 00:25:15,151 by the institutions 526 00:25:15,151 --> 00:25:16,184 because it sounds to me 527 00:25:16,184 --> 00:25:19,917 like there's a large group of women artists, 528 00:25:19,917 --> 00:25:23,804 some of whom won't have had their paintings collected 529 00:25:23,804 --> 00:25:26,983 and don't appear to be in the record anywhere. 530 00:25:26,983 --> 00:25:31,914 As a result, is there any movement or any research being undertaken, 531 00:25:31,914 --> 00:25:35,414 or anything you're aware of to try and find these women 532 00:25:35,414 --> 00:25:37,074 and get them into the record? 533 00:25:37,074 --> 00:25:38,889 It’s like an extra step. 534 00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:40,918 No, I think, this is the thing. 535 00:25:40,918 --> 00:25:43,753 We can only start with the museums what they've got, basically. 536 00:25:43,753 --> 00:25:47,849 The Stadtmuseum gets a lot of donations, as well from people around, 537 00:25:47,849 --> 00:25:49,692 and then if maybe something turns up, they go, 538 00:25:49,692 --> 00:25:52,345 "Well, we don't know who this artist is, and we can try to [track it back]." 539 00:25:52,345 --> 00:25:55,062 That's the only serendipitous way it's going to happen. 540 00:25:55,062 --> 00:25:57,914 But I think Berlin and Germany with its history 541 00:25:57,914 --> 00:26:01,392 has lost so much artwork through bombing and destruction, whatever, too, 542 00:26:01,392 --> 00:26:05,918 that I think there's a lot that has been lost permanently. 543 00:26:05,918 --> 00:26:07,772 (person 5) Okay. Thank you. 544 00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:18,306 (person 6) There's a group-- 545 00:26:18,306 --> 00:26:20,183 I can't remember the name for the life of me. 546 00:26:20,183 --> 00:26:25,678 but they actually do a lot of work with Italian artists. 547 00:26:25,678 --> 00:26:28,783 There's also work done in the UK 548 00:26:28,783 --> 00:26:33,597 to kind of bring back women artists back to the front. 549 00:26:35,627 --> 00:26:41,248 And so, I think all these local initiatives 550 00:26:41,248 --> 00:26:44,328 might need to start working together 551 00:26:44,328 --> 00:26:48,951 to do something global, to push more for it. 552 00:26:48,951 --> 00:26:51,400 Maybe that would do something more. 553 00:27:05,490 --> 00:27:11,835 (person 7) I wanted to inquire if there's a right direction to go 554 00:27:11,835 --> 00:27:14,843 to animate institutions 555 00:27:14,843 --> 00:27:19,248 to take part in making their data linked, 556 00:27:19,248 --> 00:27:22,126 or open, in some kind of way available. 557 00:27:22,126 --> 00:27:25,226 Should there be other institutions approaching-- 558 00:27:25,226 --> 00:27:26,994 Jealousy, it has to be jealousy. 559 00:27:26,994 --> 00:27:29,268 That's the only way you're going to do it. 560 00:27:29,268 --> 00:27:30,458 (person 7) I see. (chuckles) 561 00:27:30,458 --> 00:27:33,129 You need to get one institution leading the way and people saying, 562 00:27:33,129 --> 00:27:36,222 "Wow! Look what they can do with their data! We want that too!" 563 00:27:36,222 --> 00:27:39,165 I think that's the way web servers got going really, 564 00:27:39,165 --> 00:27:41,217 and I think that's the only way linked data is going to work 565 00:27:41,217 --> 00:27:42,739 is to make them jealous. 566 00:27:42,739 --> 00:27:45,753 (person 7) So, you think that the institutions 567 00:27:45,753 --> 00:27:50,637 that are not having this great linked data Wikibase instance stuff 568 00:27:50,637 --> 00:27:53,228 are going to say, "Yeah, we need that!" 569 00:27:53,228 --> 00:27:56,435 and then are trying to find some people that can set it up for them. 570 00:27:58,105 --> 00:28:00,899 Or should they approach other institutions that can help them with it? 571 00:28:00,899 --> 00:28:03,889 Or which is the right direction for them to go? 572 00:28:05,169 --> 00:28:08,649 For a starter, you've got to realize that data is a process. 573 00:28:08,649 --> 00:28:10,301 It's never finished. 574 00:28:10,301 --> 00:28:12,258 It's always something you’re working on, 575 00:28:12,258 --> 00:28:14,860 and we would encourage any institution to take the first step, 576 00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:17,003 but only to get cooperation. 577 00:28:17,003 --> 00:28:21,181 So the Stadtmuseum Berlin has helped a lot of smaller museums 578 00:28:21,181 --> 00:28:23,768 because then they say, "Look, we've got this stuff, 579 00:28:23,768 --> 00:28:25,032 we need to do something with it." 580 00:28:25,032 --> 00:28:27,806 And then they'll share it with the Stadtmuseum, so to speak, 581 00:28:27,806 --> 00:28:28,823 and help it get online. 582 00:28:28,823 --> 00:28:30,350 But we really have institutions 583 00:28:30,350 --> 00:28:33,458 where there's just two working on it in there, part-time. 584 00:28:33,458 --> 00:28:36,220 It's going to take a while before they get on that trajectory, 585 00:28:36,220 --> 00:28:39,321 but I would hope that as the processes become better, 586 00:28:39,321 --> 00:28:41,138 as Wikibase gets easier to use, 587 00:28:41,138 --> 00:28:43,708 and as people get to see what the advantages are of it. 588 00:28:43,708 --> 00:28:45,583 But I really think it's a process 589 00:28:45,583 --> 00:28:47,187 that you're always going to have to support, 590 00:28:47,187 --> 00:28:49,031 and it's something you're always going to have to make clear 591 00:28:49,031 --> 00:28:50,233 to the funding institutions, 592 00:28:50,233 --> 00:28:52,623 that it's not something they can just throw some money at, and then it's done. 593 00:28:52,623 --> 00:28:55,845 It's going to need permanent funding. Libraries need permanent funding. 594 00:28:55,845 --> 00:28:59,360 Anything to do with digital resources also need permanent funding, I think. 595 00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:08,428 (moderator) Sorry, I think we have just run out of time for questions. 596 00:29:08,428 --> 00:29:11,074 I encourage you to keep talking after the session, 597 00:29:11,074 --> 00:29:14,170 and thank you so much to our speaker and all the attendees. 598 00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:15,573 Thank you. 599 00:29:15,573 --> 00:29:17,633 (applause)