1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,452 *Wikipaka preroll music* 2 00:00:14,698 --> 00:00:19,200 Rainer: Hello, welcome. I hope it's not strange that the introduction was actually 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:26,160 in German, although the talks will be held in English, but I think this was announced 4 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,680 that way in the schedule. OK, so welcome to the Bits&Bäume movement for 5 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,360 digitalization, sustainability, the current news of Bits&Trees. Just to make 6 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:44,720 the pun complete, I changed the translation of Bits&Bäume to Bits&Trees. 7 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:54,640 So what are we talking about today? First, I want to introduce myself, then I want to 8 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:00,240 talk about some of the topics we are dealing with in Bits&Bäume, and then I 9 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:06,960 will describe the initial conference in 2018, then the demands that came out of 10 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:12,320 this conference. And then I will describe the movement that grew out of the 11 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:19,280 conference, and then I will outline some ways to act, which then hopefully guides 12 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:27,120 perfectly into the discussion. So first to myself, I'm Rainer Rehak, I have a 13 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,200 background in computer science and philosophy, I work at the Weizenbaum 14 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,280 Institute for the Networked Society as a researcher, and I'm active in the forum 15 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:41,813 Computer Professionals for Peace and Social Responsibility. And I was co- 16 00:01:41,813 --> 00:01:50,000 initiating the Bits&Bäume conference. Just one word in advance regarding the framing 17 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:57,431 of and for environmentalism, sustainability. I'm not so much in favor 18 00:01:57,431 --> 00:02:03,476 of the framing that we have to protect nature, because the Earth does not really 19 00:02:03,476 --> 00:02:09,597 care about the human beings. So, of course, once the humans are gone, it just 20 00:02:09,597 --> 00:02:13,705 needs a certain hundred thousands of years and then everything is OK again. So I 21 00:02:13,705 --> 00:02:18,080 think it's really important to say what we're talking about, what we're protecting 22 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,739 is also our livelihoods. So we all live in symbiosis. And you could, in a technical 23 00:02:22,739 --> 00:02:29,156 way, say that nature provides services we need to live. So you 24 00:02:29,156 --> 00:02:34,729 can see nature as its own value, of course, but we're actually just fighting 25 00:02:34,729 --> 00:02:44,308 for survival. So this is just to make this clear. So, the topics. So what is the 26 00:02:44,308 --> 00:02:49,687 whole thing with digitalization and sustainability about? Well, first, I would 27 00:02:49,687 --> 00:02:54,366 consider digitalization somehow the computerization, algorithmization and 28 00:02:54,366 --> 00:02:58,758 datafication that takes place all across the world. A computerization means really 29 00:02:58,758 --> 00:03:03,602 Hardware put everywhere, IoT and such things. Algorithmization and datafication, 30 00:03:03,602 --> 00:03:10,248 I think, are pretty clear terms here. In terms of sustainability, I want to talk 31 00:03:10,248 --> 00:03:16,040 about the ecological, economical, social and maybe informational sustainability 32 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:22,985 here. So you could say, sustainability means a stable condition somehow with a 33 00:03:22,985 --> 00:03:29,783 good life, that provides a good life for everyone. But first, I start with the 34 00:03:29,783 --> 00:03:37,505 ecological sustainability. Maybe some data on the material footprint of the digital 35 00:03:37,505 --> 00:03:42,560 systems we're using: one percent of the global emissions are online videos. That's 36 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:48,477 80 percent of all data traffic. If you add hardware and everything, you are maybe 37 00:03:48,477 --> 00:03:54,575 around a few percent energy use for those systems. Maybe one gigabyte in transfer 38 00:03:54,575 --> 00:04:02,880 traffic needs around .06 kWh. So that's kind of one hour of Netflix. It's a half 39 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,904 an hour, 30 watt light bulb, plus minus. However, if we take the example of 40 00:04:08,904 --> 00:04:15,089 Netflix, they try to be CO2 neutral by themselves. But of course, there are 41 00:04:15,089 --> 00:04:21,316 intermediaries which cannot be controlled. So we see it's not that easy just to say, 42 00:04:21,316 --> 00:04:27,164 you know, I try to be neutral. Some people say Google uses the same amount of energy 43 00:04:27,164 --> 00:04:33,011 as the city of San Francisco. At one point, Google says they have 40 percent 44 00:04:33,011 --> 00:04:38,560 energy saving applied right now. However, the rebound effect kicks in. If you say 45 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:44,160 that maybe one hundred new data centers are being built. So it's really, really 46 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:50,240 not so easy to count those numbers. In Germany, there are data centers 47 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:56,240 that last year took the energy of four medium sized coal fired power plants, 48 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,080 according to Bitkom and that's maybe 10 percent of the electricity generation in 49 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:07,120 Germany for Internet related things. So what I'm trying to say here is that all 50 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:13,200 those numbers, you can always, it's not so easy to put a clear number on consumption 51 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:20,240 if we take energy production into account. If it's all renewably created, wo where is 52 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:26,240 the problem? But still we have the hardware. Where does it come from? And so 53 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,560 all those questions are quite, quite complex. On the other hand, you could also 54 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:37,040 say increasing online usage, of course, online banking is increasing. But on the 55 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:42,080 other hand, you may need less branch offices, but maybe the back office is the 56 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,640 same. The same question applies with physical meetings or video conferences, 57 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,440 which we have right now the topic. Of course, people are maybe then more in home 58 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,600 office, less traveling, less office use. But on the other hand, and it's not a very 59 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,400 small point, you have heating costs and electricity generation on another place 60 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,680 and another spot maybe with different kinds of hardware because of digitization, 61 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,800 new behaviors emerge. So you can't really say, you know, it's not so easy to say if 62 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:19,680 this gets less, this gets more. So those are complicated aspects. And so what I'm 63 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:25,200 trying to say here is it's not so easy if we look at certain small aspects to see if 64 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,840 it's good or not. But we have to put the target. We have to put a goal 65 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:38,880 in the terms of ecological sustainability this is, right now we have emissions and 66 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:45,040 there's the 66 percent chance for 1.5 degrees with a certain budget right now. 67 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:50,080 That means this budget, if we take business as usual, we have around eight 68 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,600 years time globally and then we have to cut to zero to stay within this limits. 69 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:01,520 And you can also, if you like, not factually argument, but politically argue 70 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:08,800 to stay within the Paris agreement, which limits the emissions. And so this is the 71 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,560 goal. The goal is not: How can we save it a little bit here, a little bit there. But 72 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,240 we have to look at those indicators. But of course, the other aspect of 73 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:22,065 sustainability, and this is where it gets really interesting. It gets really 74 00:07:22,065 --> 00:07:29,602 interesting, for our movement or for the idea, because we have the informational 75 00:07:29,602 --> 00:07:37,035 world connected to economic and social and informational sustainability. So as I said 76 00:07:37,035 --> 00:07:42,459 before, we shifting our lives into technical dependency somehow. We need 77 00:07:42,459 --> 00:07:47,647 digital infrastructures that are independent from individual use. We have 78 00:07:47,647 --> 00:07:52,744 data information on knowledge, that's being reflected within all those digital 79 00:07:52,744 --> 00:07:57,372 infrastructures. So how do we deal with this? What does sustainability mean in 80 00:07:57,372 --> 00:08:02,469 this aspect? Concerning also the software we use and also concerning political 81 00:08:02,469 --> 00:08:12,469 processes that are maybe enabled by technology and also what technology has to 82 00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:21,200 be made more part of democratic negotiation processes. You could also look 83 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,979 at, for example, Internet and advertising, where right now the ad industry is just 84 00:08:25,979 --> 00:08:30,886 used for increased consumption. So you see a very clear connection here between 85 00:08:30,886 --> 00:08:40,012 sustainability and digitalization. And this also part of us always constantly 86 00:08:40,012 --> 00:08:45,960 using new devices if the old ones break or if they're not usable anymore. So resource 87 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,931 consumption as a whole, which is a problem and which is directly at the corner of 88 00:08:50,931 --> 00:08:54,792 digitization and sustainability. But we can also look at the digital rights 89 00:08:54,792 --> 00:09:00,284 management - is repairing allowed, sharing allowed, and we look at the economic parts 90 00:09:00,284 --> 00:09:06,729 of Monopoly's privacy and surveillance. What does it mean when there's a lot of 91 00:09:06,729 --> 00:09:11,666 power over societies and individuals? How does it influence democratic processes? 92 00:09:11,666 --> 00:09:18,578 This is also directly in the middle of those two topics. So you could also say 93 00:09:18,578 --> 00:09:23,315 there is a representative crisis in democracy, since many people support a 94 00:09:23,315 --> 00:09:30,620 shift to sustainability, but somehow it doesn't reflect in policies. So that's a 95 00:09:30,620 --> 00:09:38,460 big problem. And we also come to problematic questions like if free 96 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:44,496 software was everywhere, but we should have a look at how this free software is 97 00:09:44,496 --> 00:09:50,318 being created. If this is a hobby project of a person, then there's little 98 00:09:50,318 --> 00:09:55,151 reliability. But this is, of course, not a problem of free software. But how could we 99 00:09:55,151 --> 00:10:00,002 create an environment where free software is the norm and where the people who work 100 00:10:00,002 --> 00:10:04,210 there are not close to burnout all the time. So how to create stable communities? 101 00:10:04,210 --> 00:10:13,635 This is also something to learn from the sustainability folks. Yeah, other aspects 102 00:10:13,635 --> 00:10:18,063 are maybe electricity and transport grids that needs to be updated and changed 103 00:10:18,063 --> 00:10:24,008 according to sustainability goals. A lot of IT is needed there. And if we take, 104 00:10:24,008 --> 00:10:29,016 let's say the IT people into those discussions which are already there, of 105 00:10:29,016 --> 00:10:34,726 course. But that doesn't make it so easy for the sustainability people to fall for 106 00:10:34,726 --> 00:10:40,225 the usual blockchain and AI scam. As a last interesting topic is maybe trade 107 00:10:40,225 --> 00:10:48,549 agreements. Where usually more and more there is IT policy included. And those are 108 00:10:48,549 --> 00:10:52,984 questions of sovereignty and control, especially for the countries in the global 109 00:10:52,984 --> 00:11:01,611 south. So we see there's a lot connected here, if we open this box, yeah, this box. 110 00:11:01,611 --> 00:11:07,596 So interestingly, we somehow know what to do. But the climb... so we need to limit 111 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:13,200 global warming by limiting emissions. Maybe some people suggest CO2 budgets or 112 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:19,680 caps, we need to abolish subsidies, roll out renewable energies. We need more 113 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:26,116 sustainable mobility concepts, maybe vegetarian food, regional, seasonal, down 114 00:11:26,116 --> 00:11:31,712 to changing the whole economic system. And in all those aspects, we see 115 00:11:31,712 --> 00:11:38,119 digitalization plays a crucial role there. How do we internalize externalities, how 116 00:11:38,119 --> 00:11:43,340 do we break up monopolies? I mean, we see that right now with Facebook, with Google, 117 00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:47,685 with all of those big companies. Is it a problem with tech or is it problem with 118 00:11:47,685 --> 00:11:54,122 monopolies or is it a combination of both? And we also should ask with the 119 00:11:54,122 --> 00:11:58,972 application of technology, is the use case, does it really help with 120 00:11:58,972 --> 00:12:04,409 sustainability? We all know the paperless office, which now has more paper than 121 00:12:04,409 --> 00:12:08,202 before. So obviously computers did not help in this aspect. But those are the 122 00:12:08,202 --> 00:12:12,565 points where we need to take a closer look at what technological solutions actually 123 00:12:12,565 --> 00:12:18,815 provide. On the social level that we have to stop exploitation, check about fair 124 00:12:18,815 --> 00:12:25,401 distribution of benefits of productivity. And finally, informational, we have to 125 00:12:25,401 --> 00:12:31,000 take data protection seriously. Maybe you think about Commons based peer production 126 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,676 and software, but then also other digital goods and think about free knowledge, open 127 00:12:35,676 --> 00:12:41,471 knowledge and free cultural products, saying that free always doesn't mean it 128 00:12:41,471 --> 00:12:46,103 doesn't have to, doesn't mean that it doesn't have to cost anything. But it's 129 00:12:46,103 --> 00:12:53,424 not restricting. So as you might see now, this is very, very complex. This was a 130 00:12:53,424 --> 00:13:02,192 very, very complex bunch of questions. And so at one point, a group of people decided 131 00:13:02,192 --> 00:13:11,337 to make a conference in 2018, maybe a small view backwards. So a group of 132 00:13:11,337 --> 00:13:16,392 organizations found each other, I could say, I don't want to read all of them 133 00:13:16,392 --> 00:13:20,819 right now, but the idea was to bring together environmental folks, the hackers 134 00:13:20,819 --> 00:13:26,314 and techies and the development folks to talk exactly about those topics, so that 135 00:13:26,314 --> 00:13:30,935 everyone could bring in their abilities and their knowledge and then to get in 136 00:13:30,935 --> 00:13:38,656 contact with each other and connect the communities. With the goal of common, 137 00:13:38,656 --> 00:13:42,999 livable future for all and to work for all. Of course, that includes a clean 138 00:13:42,999 --> 00:13:54,496 atmosphere and that also needs a clean data atmosphere. OK. So. 139 00:14:02,502 --> 00:14:07,235 OK. So the idea 140 00:14:07,235 --> 00:14:13,181 was then the reflection on the relation of digitalization and sustainability, but 141 00:14:13,181 --> 00:14:18,801 also sustainability strategies for projects and also to bring in ideas like 142 00:14:18,801 --> 00:14:23,824 convivial technology. Especially interesting I found the discussion about 143 00:14:23,824 --> 00:14:28,686 the means and purpose relationship. You could say digitalization is a means and 144 00:14:28,686 --> 00:14:34,330 sustainability maybe is a purpose. So like growth, which is not an end in itself, but 145 00:14:34,330 --> 00:14:37,728 it should help. But if it doesn't help, we should stop it. And the same question you 146 00:14:37,728 --> 00:14:44,638 could make for digitalization in certain aspects. Because right now, how we 147 00:14:44,638 --> 00:14:50,512 digitally do this, this kind of digitization, it's just putting oil to the 148 00:14:50,512 --> 00:14:54,707 fire. But of course, the question is not yes, no, but what do we do and how do we 149 00:14:54,707 --> 00:15:00,336 do it? Do we use centralized systems or decentralized systems and all of those 150 00:15:00,336 --> 00:15:10,745 questions. Yes, and as a result of this conference, there were some concrete 151 00:15:10,745 --> 00:15:15,362 demands that came out, I don't want to go into details of all of them, you can check 152 00:15:15,362 --> 00:15:19,861 them out on the website. But the first point was social-ecological objectives and 153 00:15:19,861 --> 00:15:24,207 the design of digitalization. So social, environmental and development policy as 154 00:15:24,207 --> 00:15:28,705 well as peace objectives should be part of the direction where we're going to talk 155 00:15:28,705 --> 00:15:35,375 about technology, so we can shape it as we need it. And it should also foster human 156 00:15:35,375 --> 00:15:39,105 rights, climate protection goals, as well as the end of hunger and poverty, because 157 00:15:39,105 --> 00:15:44,600 this is the ultimate goal. And all the other demands, you can check out 158 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:50,640 yourself later. As you see, it goes from data protection, monopoly's, democracy, 159 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:56,813 education. So all the questions somehow I've been addressing before, we try to put 160 00:15:56,813 --> 00:16:02,681 it in a shape that's easy to understand. So it's a small leaflet, actually, and 161 00:16:02,681 --> 00:16:08,102 it's supported by, at least in Germany, major organizations from the Hacker area 162 00:16:08,102 --> 00:16:12,450 and the tech area and also the sustainability and ecological area. So I'm 163 00:16:12,450 --> 00:16:18,914 not going into those details right now. But the question was then, OK, we can't 164 00:16:18,914 --> 00:16:27,708 control and we don't want to control this thing. So that's why we said: Everyone can 165 00:16:27,708 --> 00:16:36,791 use the Bits&Bäume label as they please, if they adhere to some of our rules, you 166 00:16:36,791 --> 00:16:42,041 have to work in the direction of the digitalization of sustainability. You have 167 00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:49,195 to concentrate on activist science and civil society as we know that companies and 168 00:16:49,195 --> 00:16:53,847 especially politicians have their platforms already. So we want to give a 169 00:16:53,847 --> 00:16:59,379 voice to the less heard and in our view, more competent actors. Most of the time, 170 00:16:59,379 --> 00:17:05,085 if you support the demands and you live the motto, so you organize those events 171 00:17:05,085 --> 00:17:09,813 according to those principles, anyone can use Bits&Bäume label as they want. We have 172 00:17:09,813 --> 00:17:13,446 the local material under free licenses. You can ask for help 173 00:17:13,446 --> 00:17:17,950 under bewegung@bits-und-baeume.org if you liked, and the result 174 00:17:17,950 --> 00:17:20,835 was overwhelming. We have branches, pun 175 00:17:20,835 --> 00:17:26,679 intended, in Dreseden, in Berlin, in Hannover, in Dortmund, Osnabrück, Köln. 176 00:17:26,679 --> 00:17:31,400 And you have, they come from different areas: Some are closer to the chaos 177 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,965 family. Some are closer to the Open Knowledge foundation family. Some are 178 00:17:34,965 --> 00:17:39,760 coming just from university backgrounds. Some come from all kinds of backgrounds. 179 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:45,638 We have mailing lists, a forum, a matrix chat, there's even an assembly here at 180 00:17:45,638 --> 00:17:53,570 rC3. You can check it out if you find it. It's always part of the game. And today at 181 00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:59,143 nine, there will also be a Matrix chat. You can find all this on the website. You 182 00:17:59,143 --> 00:18:09,142 can check out the videos of the conference that have been taking place and yeah, so 183 00:18:09,142 --> 00:18:13,740 that's s kind of the whole movement, that's why it got decentralized and it's a 184 00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:21,360 really good idea, as it turned out. So finally, we get to the last point, the way 185 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:26,428 to act. Well, of course, individual action is good. You know, if you say I want to be 186 00:18:26,428 --> 00:18:31,247 streaming with less resolution, that's totally fine. But it's always clear to 187 00:18:31,247 --> 00:18:37,660 state that there's a structural problem here. We have a total asymmetry, with a 188 00:18:37,660 --> 00:18:44,959 lot of subsidies, making the cheapest and the most easy option for everything from 189 00:18:44,959 --> 00:18:54,865 food to electronics, the actually most dangerous one for climate, for avoiding a 190 00:18:54,865 --> 00:19:00,162 global warming. And so this is something that really needs to stop and needs to be 191 00:19:00,162 --> 00:19:05,682 changed in policy. But that shouldn't stop us from also starting with small 192 00:19:05,682 --> 00:19:11,665 experimental projects, with lab projects, with software projects, shape 193 00:19:11,665 --> 00:19:18,217 local groups, go to regular tables what we should organize somehow. And you can come, 194 00:19:18,217 --> 00:19:24,044 of course, to Bits&Bäume in those different cities if you want, or connect 195 00:19:24,044 --> 00:19:32,012 to the online events. And sometimes maybe it's OK to just switch off the computer 196 00:19:32,012 --> 00:19:36,756 and go outside, but I want to finish with a quote from Joseph Weizenbaum: "The 197 00:19:36,756 --> 00:19:41,041 question is not how digitalization changes society, but how society uses 198 00:19:41,041 --> 00:19:50,258 digitalization." And we try to suggest one way of making it usable globally for a 199 00:19:50,258 --> 00:19:55,186 good life for all. And I hope that was not too much and too fast. But now I'm happy 200 00:19:55,186 --> 00:19:58,908 to get feedback and questions if there are any. Thanks a lot. 201 00:20:03,458 --> 00:20:09,280 Herald: Hi, I hope you can hear me, Rainer. Thank you very much for your talk. 202 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,480 Right now, asking again on the chats and on social media to post questions about 203 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:20,560 your talk, maybe we can begin. So did you expect this to become some kind of a 204 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:26,960 distributed movement, something that started from one from event, really? 205 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:34,400 Rainer: We have actually not planned this, but later on, we found out that it's 206 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,400 impossible to, first, to contain it, which we also don't want. But it's also not 207 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:46,960 possible to coordinate this because some of us are volunteers, especially in the 208 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:54,960 tech area. So this is just not possible. And I mean, decentralization is always a 209 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,800 good thing, and it's why we put up those principles. But from the beginning on, 210 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,800 that was not the idea. But somehow it got to life. And it turns out it was a good 211 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:11,040 idea because at least in the German speaking area, this label has become 212 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,680 something like an indicator for certain discourse, if we think, for example, Silke 213 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,720 Helfrich, she organized a project 10 years ago - jeans, fights and emissions - that 214 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,240 always already tried this, but then they came different names and different 215 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:32,800 discourses. So it was hard to trace that back. But maybe it works that this kind of 216 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:39,920 open label also helps that people who work on those same issues also find each other 217 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,548 better somehow. Herald: So we got a question on the chat: 218 00:21:44,548 --> 00:21:49,033 Jian is asking: Does this mean that there are no big Bits&Bäume conferences in the 219 00:21:49,033 --> 00:21:54,416 near future? Rainer: No, that does not mean that. It's, 220 00:21:54,416 --> 00:22:05,395 uh, let's say, there might certainly be a big conference in the future. But this 221 00:22:05,395 --> 00:22:11,978 should not keep anyone from organizing small ones or other big ones, but let's 222 00:22:11,978 --> 00:22:19,174 say, some seeds might be already planted and let's see what's happening. 223 00:22:19,174 --> 00:22:25,381 Herald: That's good. We have another question coming up right now, and I seem 224 00:22:25,381 --> 00:22:31,120 to have lost it - no. Are there any distributed online events or meetups, one 225 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,379 could join, I think, you went into this a bit in the end. But maybe you could repeat 226 00:22:35,379 --> 00:22:39,885 that where people who are more interested in this can actually meet others. 227 00:22:39,885 --> 00:22:46,838 Rainer: Yes, definitely. Not only because of the pandemic situation right now, but 228 00:22:46,838 --> 00:22:53,440 there are meet ups planned also for 2021- but of course not that long anymore. And 229 00:22:53,440 --> 00:23:01,174 you could check out on the website. And it's on the website up there, there is the 230 00:23:01,174 --> 00:23:11,254 connection to the forum and to the Matrix chat, and there we will - not we, I'm also 231 00:23:11,254 --> 00:23:17,451 not that connected, but I know it will take place - there you can find the 232 00:23:17,451 --> 00:23:24,258 connection to those local tables and the plan for 2021 is to have one, a bigger 233 00:23:24,258 --> 00:23:31,003 exchange that goes just across the cities. And I think this is the place to go to 234 00:23:31,003 --> 00:23:36,433 check it. But this is definitely in plan and this is some good idea. 235 00:23:36,433 --> 00:23:41,905 Herald: So, I mean, you did this talking English right now, despite this being 236 00:23:41,905 --> 00:23:46,659 something that originated in Germany here, what's basically the internationalization 237 00:23:46,659 --> 00:23:53,373 idea you have in mind? Rainer: Exactly. So the idea was somehow 238 00:23:53,373 --> 00:24:06,933 that a lot of the work we've been doing and coordinating, I see that it's 239 00:24:06,933 --> 00:24:11,054 necessary to distribute this to somehow say, hey, people have been thinking about 240 00:24:11,054 --> 00:24:16,783 this already. And for example, in the conference 2018 already, the talks, all of 241 00:24:16,783 --> 00:24:21,290 the talks have been translated to English as well. So if you check, also at 242 00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:27,961 media.ccc.de, you can always choose the language track English. And but I just or 243 00:24:27,961 --> 00:24:34,000 we just noticed that this was nice for the people who have been there. But it has not 244 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:40,425 gained broad attention, so this is just an idea to maybe find others who've been 245 00:24:40,425 --> 00:24:45,925 working into this, in this direction to see that there are other initiatives working 246 00:24:45,925 --> 00:24:53,080 and that to join powers and somehow try to steer the ship into a more sunny direction 247 00:24:53,080 --> 00:25:00,611 again. *Background Noise* 248 00:25:05,001 --> 00:25:07,781 Rainer: I can't hear you talking right now. 249 00:25:07,781 --> 00:25:16,800 Herald: Sorry, I didn't want to. OK, I'll just say again, I wanted to say there's 250 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:22,480 another question coming in. Coolish is asking: Where can I see some of the 251 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,800 projects that took place in the past two years since conference? I guess the 252 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:32,400 answer, again, is your website, maybe. Rainer: Yes, it's partly, but it's partly 253 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:43,920 a bit distributed. At first, the website is a good start. But, let me see, there 254 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:50,960 have been conferences in Dresden, for example, which you can access via the 255 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:56,560 website - dresden.bits-und-baeume.org - you can find the documentation there. Um, 256 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:02,560 but I think the forum would be a good idea to ask there if you can't find all those 257 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,920 other things. And also smaller events like on the Internet Governance Forum 2019, 258 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:14,560 where we were present in Jena on the Great Transformation Conference or the Forum, 259 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:22,400 which takes place every three months, which is a discussion format in Berlin, 260 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,760 always to certain topics, and we try to somehow announce it on the website to get 261 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:34,160 this together. But as I said, if people would like to join, we're happy if you're 262 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,160 a visionary and bring in your ideas and your content, that's really great. But 263 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,680 with all projects, it's also nice if you say, well, I actually think it's 264 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,920 interesting what's happening there. I don't have the big vision, but I'm happy 265 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,960 with tracing what has been happening and putting it in our history log in the 266 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,680 calendar, which we already have in a very basic structure, this is also greatly 267 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,920 helped so that other people don't have to do this work twice. So that's why we will 268 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:10,480 find some of them on the website, but not all of it. But we're happy if it was 269 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,280 archived in a more structured way. Herald: Yeah, that's also always very 270 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,280 important with community work to put in the hours and actually do the archiving 271 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,720 work so that it's preserved for anything that comes up later. 272 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:30,800 Rainer: Yes. Just as a comment, this is a classic example as well of sustainability. 273 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Like how do you create a sustainable project or a sustainable community? Of 274 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:43,440 course, if new people come in, where do they start? You need some kind of memory 275 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,840 for this in an organizational way. And so this is a very interesting instance of 276 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,760 what sustainability also can mean. It doesn't always have to be some crazy new 277 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,160 ideas. But if we think about the digital archiving and all those questions, this is 278 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,320 all part of it, of getting a livable digital environment. 279 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:08,960 Herald: Thank you so much, Rainer. I think that's all the questions we have from the 280 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,160 audience tonight. Sorry again for doing the introduction in German. I was just in 281 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,760 my mind coming from that. But anybody in the audience, if you can't find 282 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,080 Bits&Bäume, because you don't know how to spell it in German, you can try to get it, 283 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,800 if you find Wikipaka, that's our name on Twitter. And we have a new website we just 284 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:35,680 built today, wikipaka.wtf. Basically just click on anything you'll be linked through 285 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,080 to our Fahrplan, to our digital schedule, where you will find information about this 286 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,040 talk and all the links that Rainer provided. So this will get you the 287 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,760 information you need. Rainer: And go to the assembly in the rC3 288 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,400 world. So we are there as well. Herald: Oh, yes. Yeah. So please come and 289 00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,090 find the Bits&Bäume assembly in the rC3 world if you have a ticket. Thank you so much. 290 00:29:00,090 --> 00:29:02,905 *Wikipaka postroll music* 291 00:29:02,905 --> 00:29:16,594 Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2021. Join, and help us!