0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/1384 Thanks! 1 00:00:00,490 --> 00:00:02,139 Good evening and welcome to the car's 2 00:00:02,140 --> 00:00:03,189 West Stage, 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,819 the next talk is about storing 4 00:00:06,820 --> 00:00:08,650 energy in the 21st century. 5 00:00:11,590 --> 00:00:14,019 Frank is a journalist 6 00:00:14,020 --> 00:00:16,148 mostly writing on manned space 7 00:00:16,149 --> 00:00:18,549 flight but also working 8 00:00:18,550 --> 00:00:20,619 on energy storage, and he's 9 00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:23,049 going to tell us what his ideas 10 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:25,479 are, what his knowledge about solutions 11 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,639 for the future of storing 12 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,679 energy will be. 13 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,680 Please welcome him. 14 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:38,339 All right. 15 00:00:38,340 --> 00:00:40,469 Um, as was 16 00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:42,179 already said, I'm a journalist and I'm a 17 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:44,459 podcaster, I write text, I speak 18 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:45,989 into microphones. 19 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:48,029 Doing presentations is not part of my 20 00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:50,399 job. My presentations are bad. 21 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:51,400 I'm sorry about that. 22 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,130 So this talk is going to be about 23 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:58,369 energy storage and 21st century. 24 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:02,199 If you expect this to be about 25 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,479 the future, you're only 26 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:05,499 half right. 27 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:07,599 Because if you had to 28 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,759 look at the calendar, it's 2020. 29 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,519 We are in the 21st century. 30 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,769 And one of the things 31 00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:16,929 we need to talk about is our 32 00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:18,999 state right now and how we got here. 33 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,459 And you might be a bit surprised 34 00:01:21,460 --> 00:01:24,159 by my first slide. 35 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,159 Yeah, 1859 36 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,379 let asset batteries 37 00:01:29,380 --> 00:01:31,449 actually very first kind of battery that 38 00:01:31,450 --> 00:01:33,249 was ever invented. 39 00:01:33,250 --> 00:01:35,499 That was actually rechargeable. 40 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:37,899 And it's still the most popular 41 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:38,949 battery around. 42 00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:40,299 As you can see, it's 43 00:01:42,070 --> 00:01:45,219 over 370 gigawatt hours 44 00:01:45,220 --> 00:01:47,379 of light as the batteries are produced 45 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:49,689 every year today, and 46 00:01:49,690 --> 00:01:51,039 that's more than twice. 47 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,109 Or maybe this year it's 48 00:01:53,110 --> 00:01:55,179 just about twice of what we have in 49 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:57,429 production and lithium ion batteries. 50 00:01:57,430 --> 00:01:59,739 So it is this really is a very important 51 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:00,699 technology. 52 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:03,099 And yeah, electric 53 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:05,559 cars where are not 54 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,659 very modern invention, in fact run 55 00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:09,879 to sort of last century there were quite 56 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,409 popular and. 57 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,609 Lots of people will say, yeah, OK, 58 00:02:15,610 --> 00:02:16,610 that's that's. 59 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,089 This was the moment when when everything 60 00:02:19,090 --> 00:02:21,609 went bad, but if you look at 61 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:23,829 the actual performance of these cars, 62 00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:26,769 well, this was for early adopters. 63 00:02:26,770 --> 00:02:29,589 They had poor HPS three kilowatts 64 00:02:29,590 --> 00:02:30,669 of power. 65 00:02:30,670 --> 00:02:32,829 They were driving at about the speed 66 00:02:32,830 --> 00:02:34,899 of what you would walk maybe 67 00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:35,900 a little bit faster. 68 00:02:37,060 --> 00:02:39,279 And if you were trying to go up 69 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,499 a hill, this thing still 70 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:43,629 waste a ton. I mean, it's almost as 71 00:02:43,630 --> 00:02:45,579 heavy as a modern car. 72 00:02:45,580 --> 00:02:47,349 There were not very good overall. 73 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:51,039 You need when you have a real car, 74 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,569 you need a bit more than that. 75 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:56,079 These days, about 70 million passenger 76 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,389 cars are produced every year. 77 00:02:58,390 --> 00:03:00,489 25 million commercial vehicles like 78 00:03:00,490 --> 00:03:02,559 vans, trucks, tractors and so on 79 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,599 are produced every year. 80 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:05,600 And. 81 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:08,579 About 90 kilowatt hours of 82 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:10,709 lithium ion batteries are put 83 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:12,029 into electric cars. 84 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:14,109 So if we took all the 85 00:03:14,110 --> 00:03:16,379 production of passenger cars 86 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:18,629 and divided the 87 00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:20,819 batteries among them, it's one point five 88 00:03:20,820 --> 00:03:22,289 kilowatt hours per car. 89 00:03:22,290 --> 00:03:23,549 That's not quite enough. 90 00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:25,949 So the number of electric vehicles 91 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:28,439 you see on the street is not because 92 00:03:30,390 --> 00:03:32,759 people are not willing to make more, but 93 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,439 they just don't have enough batteries for 94 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:35,489 that. 95 00:03:35,490 --> 00:03:36,490 We need. 96 00:03:37,310 --> 00:03:39,859 At least 3500 gigawatt 97 00:03:39,860 --> 00:03:42,349 hours. And that's about 20 times 98 00:03:42,350 --> 00:03:43,819 the current production of lithium ion 99 00:03:43,820 --> 00:03:46,339 batteries just to supply 100 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:47,899 passenger cars. 101 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:50,089 All the other things like trucks, vans, 102 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:52,249 vehicles, maybe great 103 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:54,799 storage, all the other things that you 104 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,169 need the lithium ion batteries for 105 00:03:57,170 --> 00:03:58,849 is not included in that figure. 106 00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:03,379 But in fact, lithium ion batteries 107 00:04:03,380 --> 00:04:05,719 are still a very modern technology, 108 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,879 and there were 109 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,919 others like naked cadmium. 110 00:04:10,930 --> 00:04:12,909 I also turn of the century, 111 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,619 and yet others like Nick Iron and 112 00:04:17,620 --> 00:04:20,078 what happened with Nick Iron is that 113 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:21,699 they replaced the cadmium of iron 114 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,909 fact was still a bit more expensive 115 00:04:24,910 --> 00:04:26,019 to produce. 116 00:04:26,020 --> 00:04:28,089 But these batteries 117 00:04:28,090 --> 00:04:30,159 kind of worked, and that was a great 118 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,839 advantage. On the other hand, nobody 119 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:33,940 quite knew why they worked. 120 00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:37,059 In fact, when you see the when you see 121 00:04:37,060 --> 00:04:38,080 the formula here, 122 00:04:39,970 --> 00:04:42,069 these formulas were figured out in 123 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:44,349 around 1960 or so before. 124 00:04:44,350 --> 00:04:46,149 That was very hard to figure this out 125 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,089 because you couldn't actually look into 126 00:04:49,090 --> 00:04:50,859 the battery and do all the chemical 127 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:53,199 analysis, and they needed near 128 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,419 infrared spectrometry to figure that 129 00:04:55,420 --> 00:04:56,420 out. 130 00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:58,389 They will look at that formula and you 131 00:04:58,390 --> 00:05:00,789 squint a bit and maybe 132 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:03,009 subtract the O-H here from 133 00:05:03,010 --> 00:05:04,059 the H2O. 134 00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:05,679 What you actually see is that 135 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:10,029 here's the hydrogen and moves over to 136 00:05:10,030 --> 00:05:12,459 over to the to the nickel. 137 00:05:12,460 --> 00:05:14,439 And this was something that was observed 138 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,850 and somebody had the idea 139 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,239 that you could just build a battery 140 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,909 without any cadmium or any iron. 141 00:05:21,910 --> 00:05:24,039 You just have hydrogen in there. 142 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,289 And these batteries were actually quite 143 00:05:26,290 --> 00:05:27,939 successful, even though you might never 144 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:30,009 have heard of them because 145 00:05:30,010 --> 00:05:31,509 they're mostly used in space. 146 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,570 Hubble Space Telescope still has them. 147 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:38,439 The International Space Station had 148 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:39,789 them or has them. 149 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:41,199 They're currently being replaced by 150 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,200 lithium batteries. 151 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:45,429 But they were quite important, at least 152 00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:46,689 in that area, 153 00:05:47,770 --> 00:05:49,839 and especially because they had a 154 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:51,909 large. They could sustain a large 155 00:05:51,910 --> 00:05:52,910 number of cycles 156 00:05:54,010 --> 00:05:55,839 like 20000 50000. 157 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,059 And you have to remember they were used 158 00:05:58,060 --> 00:06:00,159 in satellites or like 159 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,199 the space station in very low orbits. 160 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,359 So every 90 minutes they go runs 161 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,309 once around the Earth and they have a 162 00:06:06,310 --> 00:06:08,949 sunrise and the sunset every 90 minutes. 163 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:10,600 So about 6000 per year. 164 00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:13,749 And so you get six thousand cycles 165 00:06:13,750 --> 00:06:14,750 every year 166 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:18,129 and your battery has to has to be 167 00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:19,130 able to sustain that. 168 00:06:20,490 --> 00:06:22,769 However, these batteries were absolutely 169 00:06:22,770 --> 00:06:26,369 not suitable for anything 170 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:27,659 here on Earth. 171 00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:29,369 For one thing, you don't really want to 172 00:06:29,370 --> 00:06:31,529 have a pressure vessel filled with 173 00:06:31,530 --> 00:06:33,809 anything around you because 174 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:36,119 it's really high pressure and something 175 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,009 might go wrong, especially when you build 176 00:06:38,010 --> 00:06:39,480 like millions of them. 177 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:43,229 And also 178 00:06:43,230 --> 00:06:45,719 inside there is gas. 179 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,059 There's extra hydrogen being developed 180 00:06:48,060 --> 00:06:50,040 inside the inside the battery. 181 00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:53,589 And as soon as it leaks 182 00:06:53,590 --> 00:06:55,419 the hydrogen out there, it's flammable, 183 00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:57,999 explosive. It's possibly explosive. 184 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,560 You don't really want that. 185 00:07:01,350 --> 00:07:03,599 So people had the bad idea, 186 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,519 actually, they had this idea before they 187 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,319 said, well, we can just use the hydrogen 188 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,509 gas and they 189 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:12,059 stored the the hydrogen 190 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:13,349 in the form of hydrates 191 00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:17,689 and you all have these batteries. 192 00:07:17,690 --> 00:07:19,979 The typical a rechargeable 193 00:07:19,980 --> 00:07:23,099 batteries, 1.2 volts, 194 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:25,260 and they're chemically exactly the same. 195 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:33,489 They're chemically exactly the same thing 196 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:36,819 because they 197 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:39,069 make hydrogen and hydrogen gets stored 198 00:07:39,070 --> 00:07:41,169 inside this black stuff here, and the 199 00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:43,479 black stuff is 200 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,669 a metal mixture 201 00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:48,129 of metals that easily forms hydrates 202 00:07:48,130 --> 00:07:49,959 and they act. 203 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,509 So you have a chemical bond, 204 00:07:52,510 --> 00:07:55,029 but a very easy chemical bond 205 00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:57,249 between the hydrogen and the material 206 00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:59,499 inside there that can 207 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:02,459 so the material can take up to 208 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:04,689 the hydrogen and give it off even 209 00:08:04,690 --> 00:08:07,119 at room temperature at 210 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,159 fairly good rates, at least good enough 211 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,160 for the batteries. 212 00:08:11,290 --> 00:08:13,419 The problem is, it's pretty 213 00:08:13,420 --> 00:08:14,420 darn heavy 214 00:08:16,060 --> 00:08:17,979 when you look at like the stuff that's in 215 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:20,169 there. It's it's mostly nickel 216 00:08:20,170 --> 00:08:21,519 and cobalt and a bit of 217 00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:25,899 an tonight and. 218 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,039 That was the first mixture there are now 219 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,829 these days there are there are others 220 00:08:30,830 --> 00:08:32,959 that are a little bit better and 221 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,969 completely different materials like 222 00:08:34,970 --> 00:08:37,428 titanium, but 223 00:08:37,429 --> 00:08:38,749 almost always some nickel. 224 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:41,100 And. 225 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:44,350 Yeah. 226 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,329 There were others thought 227 00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:50,699 pattern that this one, um. 228 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:51,989 Actually, four cars. 229 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:55,229 Yes, Ford did want to build electric 230 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:57,389 cars and the battery 231 00:08:57,390 --> 00:08:59,669 they had was almost as 232 00:08:59,670 --> 00:09:03,209 good as lithium ion batteries 233 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:04,829 around 1990. 234 00:09:04,830 --> 00:09:06,389 They're quite good. There were three 235 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:08,729 times as good as light as asset 236 00:09:08,730 --> 00:09:09,730 batteries. 237 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:12,449 Only problem is it's a high temperature, 238 00:09:12,450 --> 00:09:14,879 battery, sodium 239 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,679 and to solve for both liquid 240 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,049 and. 241 00:09:20,050 --> 00:09:22,149 If you ever had sodium somewhere 242 00:09:22,150 --> 00:09:24,009 in if you've ever seen the experiment in 243 00:09:24,010 --> 00:09:26,619 chemistry where sodium was in water 244 00:09:26,620 --> 00:09:27,999 and it exploded. 245 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,219 Well, if this sodium is liquid, 246 00:09:30,220 --> 00:09:32,350 it gets worse, gets much worse. 247 00:09:33,790 --> 00:09:36,309 And in this battery, 248 00:09:36,310 --> 00:09:39,159 the sodium and the sulfur 249 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,289 are divided by 250 00:09:41,290 --> 00:09:42,939 a solid electrolyte, and the solid 251 00:09:42,940 --> 00:09:45,009 electrolyte is actually a kind of 252 00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:46,029 ceramic. 253 00:09:46,030 --> 00:09:48,969 It's aluminum oxide, and 254 00:09:48,970 --> 00:09:50,619 it's fairly brittle and porous. 255 00:09:50,620 --> 00:09:52,329 It has to be for because something has to 256 00:09:52,330 --> 00:09:53,739 get through. 257 00:09:53,740 --> 00:09:55,929 So the sodium and sulfur can react 258 00:09:55,930 --> 00:09:56,930 with each other. 259 00:09:58,930 --> 00:10:01,329 And no, you cannot really 260 00:10:01,330 --> 00:10:03,909 use this stuff in a car, 261 00:10:03,910 --> 00:10:05,409 which is kind of obvious. 262 00:10:05,410 --> 00:10:07,479 You don't want to have liquid sodium in 263 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,969 your car, and 264 00:10:09,970 --> 00:10:12,189 these batteries are anxious they still 265 00:10:12,190 --> 00:10:15,069 use these days in grid storage, 266 00:10:15,070 --> 00:10:16,239 especially in Japan. 267 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,429 There's a company 268 00:10:18,430 --> 00:10:20,589 I had never heard of when I read 269 00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:22,659 about those in 2010, 270 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:25,869 and I know it's 2010 because that company 271 00:10:25,870 --> 00:10:27,249 was TEPCO. 272 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,059 If anybody remembers this and 273 00:10:31,060 --> 00:10:33,189 why, this is why it's important 274 00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:35,859 that I read about this in 2010 and 275 00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:38,260 remember this sometime later in 2011, 276 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,360 I'm. 277 00:10:42,730 --> 00:10:44,799 But the problem is a lot of 278 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,619 these, a lot of these batteries, and 279 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:49,689 we'll talk about lithium ion 280 00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:50,860 batteries in a moment. 281 00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:54,339 Materials is 282 00:10:54,340 --> 00:10:56,139 one of my favorite charts in Wikipedia. 283 00:10:57,730 --> 00:11:00,009 It's the abundance of chemical elements 284 00:11:00,010 --> 00:11:01,629 in the Earth's crust, in the Earth's 285 00:11:01,630 --> 00:11:02,679 continental crust. 286 00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:05,619 It's a bit of a lie. 287 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:07,689 If you there is we have 288 00:11:07,690 --> 00:11:09,969 oceans and the oceans 289 00:11:09,970 --> 00:11:12,189 contain a lot less hydrogen than 290 00:11:12,190 --> 00:11:13,869 would be in the stable. 291 00:11:13,870 --> 00:11:15,069 This is not a complete table. 292 00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:17,139 I took some sections out just to 293 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:18,490 show some important bits here 294 00:11:19,870 --> 00:11:21,759 like, you know, let us down here. 295 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,959 It's fairly rare. 296 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,089 Lithium is also quite rare. 297 00:11:25,090 --> 00:11:27,279 The reason lithium is rare is because 298 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,289 of what happens in the sun. 299 00:11:29,290 --> 00:11:32,019 Lithium is very suitable 300 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:34,569 to nuclear fusion. 301 00:11:34,570 --> 00:11:36,699 So a nuclear fusion lithium 302 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:38,859 almost immediately gets burned, and we 303 00:11:38,860 --> 00:11:40,659 don't have a lot of lithium anywhere in 304 00:11:40,660 --> 00:11:42,129 the universe. 305 00:11:42,130 --> 00:11:44,199 Um, also 306 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,269 not on Earth. As you can see, 307 00:11:46,270 --> 00:11:48,699 um, cobalt is almost 308 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:49,700 the same. 309 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:52,629 And actually, if you want 310 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:54,819 to build batteries and you want to build 311 00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:56,110 a lot of batteries. 312 00:11:59,020 --> 00:12:01,089 You want to have something 313 00:12:01,090 --> 00:12:03,279 rather up there as far 314 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,499 up as possible, like, 315 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:07,389 you know, sodium, for example, we had 316 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:09,549 sodium sulfur batteries sorry 317 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:11,649 for would be somewhere in between here, 318 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:13,659 but we have a lot of sulfur because 319 00:12:14,830 --> 00:12:17,319 in case you didn't know, we 320 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,659 do produce a lot of oil 321 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:21,339 and there's a lot of sulfur in the oil 322 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:23,469 and our fuels these days 323 00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:25,599 have yet we have to take 324 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,939 diesel out of the out of the oil 325 00:12:27,940 --> 00:12:29,799 in order to produce our fuels because 326 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,139 otherwise we'd have lots of 327 00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,239 sulfur dioxide emissions 328 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,339 and all that sulfur that 329 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:39,189 gets taken out of the out of the fuel 330 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:40,929 ends up somewhere. 331 00:12:40,930 --> 00:12:43,119 And so we have a lot of sulfur 332 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,370 around so we can use that any time. 333 00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:50,179 Other stuff that's maybe, maybe 334 00:12:50,180 --> 00:12:51,879 you may be surprised there's titanium on 335 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,229 this list, too. 336 00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:55,509 And it's it's we 337 00:12:55,510 --> 00:12:57,099 have a lot of it. It's like the ninth 338 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:59,589 most element nickel 339 00:12:59,590 --> 00:13:02,079 is some is quite 340 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,969 rare on the one hand, but it's a much 341 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:05,919 more common, especially in production 342 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,570 than something like cobalt. 343 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,039 The other thing you might want to know 344 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,199 about elements, by the way, it's 345 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,479 really hard to find a good 346 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,579 periodic table that 347 00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:19,749 shows the right numbers 348 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,929 and the only one and is free to 349 00:13:22,930 --> 00:13:25,299 use, and the only one I found 350 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:26,529 was a Japanese one. 351 00:13:26,530 --> 00:13:28,389 I'm sorry, but it shows the right 352 00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:29,440 numbers. That's important. 353 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,219 One of the important things if you want 354 00:13:33,220 --> 00:13:35,589 to have a battery that is light and has 355 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:38,259 a lot of power is 356 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:40,359 the way these little numbers 357 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,059 that nobody cares about down here. 358 00:13:43,060 --> 00:13:45,339 That's one of the most important numbers. 359 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:48,219 Um, because 360 00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:49,630 that's how much the atom weighs. 361 00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:53,229 Chemical reactions only 362 00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:56,709 chemical reactions only work when 363 00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:58,539 you work with the outer electrons in the 364 00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:01,089 outer shell, and 365 00:14:01,090 --> 00:14:03,189 the energies of these electrons in the 366 00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:05,679 outer shell are kind of similar. 367 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,049 It's always like a few electron 368 00:14:08,050 --> 00:14:09,050 volts. 369 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,409 It doesn't differ too much. 370 00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:13,209 I mean, it's like, OK, it can be one. 371 00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:15,339 It can be a five, but it's not like, 372 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:17,199 it's not like one has five and the other 373 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,269 has five hundred on the other end. 374 00:14:19,270 --> 00:14:21,849 Here, everything goes from one hydrogen 375 00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:24,309 to something like lab, which has 376 00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:25,310 207. 377 00:14:26,410 --> 00:14:29,139 So the differences are quite huge. 378 00:14:29,140 --> 00:14:31,179 So when you have a flat battery, you 379 00:14:31,180 --> 00:14:32,949 already know it cannot have a heck of a 380 00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:35,319 lot of capacity simply because 381 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,389 the atoms in there are 382 00:14:37,390 --> 00:14:38,739 very heavy. 383 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:41,409 Same goes for something like cadmium. 384 00:14:41,410 --> 00:14:43,119 Nickel, on the other hand, is a lot 385 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,259 better already. 386 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:46,179 I mean, you're around 60, you know, 387 00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:48,789 nickel, cobalt, manganese, iron, 388 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:50,829 that stuff is around 60. 389 00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:51,830 And. 390 00:14:52,390 --> 00:14:54,399 On the one hand, it's quite heavy, on the 391 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,959 other hand, it's much lighter than the 392 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,039 stuff we had before. 393 00:15:01,620 --> 00:15:03,509 So when people were looking for high 394 00:15:03,510 --> 00:15:06,239 performing batteries, 395 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,039 they were looking in this corner up 396 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,040 there. 397 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:12,239 Obviously, hydrogen is the lightest 398 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,529 atom of them all. 399 00:15:13,530 --> 00:15:15,689 And if you just want to burn hydrogen, 400 00:15:15,690 --> 00:15:17,639 you get a lot of energy out of it. 401 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,709 On the other hand, it's hydrogen, it's a 402 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:20,710 gas. 403 00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:22,979 It's really hard to contain into 404 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:24,119 anything. 405 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,579 And so for a battery, 406 00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:28,020 it's not the first choice. 407 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:32,789 So what's the next best option 408 00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:33,869 you may have noticed? 409 00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:36,899 I took the the noble, 410 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:39,209 the nova gases and anything below 411 00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:41,309 fluoride out of this out of 412 00:15:41,310 --> 00:15:43,440 this one, just so it looks a bit nicer. 413 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,699 But helium? No, you cannot make a battery 414 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,379 and appear out of helium. 415 00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:51,359 So they were looking at lithium. 416 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,649 Lithium is fairly light. 417 00:15:55,650 --> 00:15:57,329 You see, it has a weight of seven. 418 00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:59,599 That's seven grams per mole. 419 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,679 Um, and if you want to 420 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,179 make a battery that has the highest 421 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:05,429 possible performance, it's obviously 422 00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:06,430 lithium. 423 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,449 Um, sodium has 424 00:16:09,450 --> 00:16:11,399 very similar chemical characteristics. 425 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,619 That's why we have a periodic table, 426 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:15,689 everything that's on on top and one 427 00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:18,179 column has kind of similar 428 00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:19,230 chemical behavior. 429 00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:23,369 So sodium will play a role a bit later, 430 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:25,639 but as you can see, sodium is 431 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,859 about three times as heavy as lithium. 432 00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:30,139 And so the first choice 433 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:32,389 when you look at when you look at 434 00:16:32,390 --> 00:16:34,069 a new battery that you might want to 435 00:16:34,070 --> 00:16:36,289 invent will be lithium 436 00:16:36,290 --> 00:16:37,290 and not sodium. 437 00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:42,109 And that's what was done. 438 00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:44,269 Of course, this year we had a Nobel Prize 439 00:16:44,270 --> 00:16:47,209 finally for it won't be good enough. 440 00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:50,149 At the age of 97 years, 441 00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:51,589 by the way, he's still a researcher. 442 00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:54,079 He's still researchers in 443 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,719 batteries, lithium batteries 444 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,130 and also sodium batteries. 445 00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:03,049 And this was 446 00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:04,039 a revolution. 447 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,229 It was really the big breakthrough. 448 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:07,880 If you if you ever look at 449 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:11,899 I mean, there's so many articles 450 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:14,118 that I try not to write, let's say 451 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,189 this next super battery is just 452 00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:17,190 around the corner. 453 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:19,319 On the one hand, 454 00:17:21,050 --> 00:17:23,149 developing this thing I 455 00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:26,118 took from the 1970s 456 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,259 until the 90s 457 00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:31,159 just to just to make it work properly 458 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,109 and commercialize it. 459 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:34,699 The first ones were offered in around 460 00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:37,070 1970 and 1991. 461 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,049 Um, but 462 00:17:42,050 --> 00:17:44,149 it improved and improved 463 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:46,249 quite a lot since then. 464 00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:47,599 As you can see, it's almost two and a 465 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,969 half times the capacity 466 00:17:49,970 --> 00:17:51,410 in the last 30 years. 467 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:54,679 Unfortunately, there's a lot of 468 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,929 people who write articles saying, Yeah, 469 00:17:56,930 --> 00:17:59,029 OK, we can 470 00:17:59,030 --> 00:18:01,189 get five times or ten 471 00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:03,949 times the capacity 472 00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:06,739 within the next five or 10 years. 473 00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:08,869 By the way, these kinds of articles and 474 00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:11,059 announcements have been made ever 475 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:12,649 since batteries were around. 476 00:18:12,650 --> 00:18:15,049 I mean, you can actually find articles 477 00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:17,629 in the 1990s, around nineteen 478 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:19,639 hundred that sat the same thing like, 479 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,499 yeah, OK, ten times as much in the next 480 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:22,639 ten years. 481 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,859 Well, let's put it that 482 00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:27,079 way. One hundred years later, they 483 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,999 had we had about 10 times as much. 484 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,489 So that's about how long it takes, but 485 00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:34,589 it's actually not bad, and we are really 486 00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:36,659 quite good, especially in the last in the 487 00:18:36,660 --> 00:18:39,029 last 20, 30 years, improvements 488 00:18:39,030 --> 00:18:40,030 have been quite good. 489 00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:42,290 Um, 490 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,569 main problem with this thing? 491 00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:47,689 OK, maybe I should say how it works. 492 00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:49,979 Um, there was actually 493 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:52,079 another another talk that explained 494 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,179 how this thing works would be quite 495 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:55,139 brief. 496 00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:57,539 Um, you have a material 497 00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:58,709 with lithium in here. 498 00:18:59,730 --> 00:19:00,730 That's a cathode. 499 00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:03,959 And when you charge it, 500 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,299 I put a negative charge in here 501 00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:08,369 and the positive ions go 502 00:19:08,370 --> 00:19:11,069 over here and are and are stored 503 00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:12,299 in this case. 504 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:13,949 And that was the first first kind of 505 00:19:13,950 --> 00:19:16,109 battery ever was around was 506 00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:17,910 in in carbon, 507 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,089 actually, they used Coke. 508 00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:23,249 I think these days we 509 00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:26,429 use graphite and graphite is 510 00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:28,529 a we more or less makes this 511 00:19:28,530 --> 00:19:29,530 one out. 512 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,309 Um, if you remember, 513 00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:33,329 if you remember the 514 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,500 this table, um, 515 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:40,229 storing it in graphite has a problem 516 00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:42,599 you see up there. Carbon carbon 517 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,680 has a weight of twelve. 518 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,369 And when you saw lithium, when you saw 519 00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:50,689 lithium in in these layers, 520 00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:53,209 you need about six carbon atoms 521 00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:55,099 to store one lithium atom. 522 00:19:56,690 --> 00:19:58,969 And the carbon atoms together, 523 00:19:58,970 --> 00:20:01,069 six carbon atoms have a weight of 70 524 00:20:01,070 --> 00:20:03,169 to the lithium atom has 525 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:04,249 a weight of seven. 526 00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:06,379 So the carbon is about 10 times as heavy 527 00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:07,549 as the lithium. 528 00:20:07,550 --> 00:20:10,849 So obviously this is not ideal, 529 00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:12,919 but it took a long time just to max this 530 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:13,999 out. 531 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,129 These days, I think they're at around 90 532 00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:17,689 percent or so of the theoretical 533 00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:18,690 capacity. 534 00:20:19,670 --> 00:20:21,259 So if you want to do something with 535 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:23,869 graphite, um, 536 00:20:23,870 --> 00:20:26,599 you kind of improve this much more. 537 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,909 On the other hand, here. 538 00:20:28,910 --> 00:20:31,699 This one says metallic cobalt 539 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:32,700 and. 540 00:20:33,870 --> 00:20:36,299 This is because lithium cobalt 541 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:38,399 oxide was material of 542 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,739 choice from the beginning 543 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:43,499 in lithium batteries 544 00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,060 and was pure cobalt oxide. 545 00:20:46,650 --> 00:20:48,749 This, too has changed. 546 00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:49,829 Um. 547 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:51,089 Oh damn it. 548 00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:52,259 OK. 549 00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:54,059 This will change and we will see it later 550 00:20:55,820 --> 00:20:57,149 on. 551 00:20:57,150 --> 00:20:59,519 Lithium, where's lithium 552 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,629 coming from? 553 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:02,789 This year, I I was always 554 00:21:02,790 --> 00:21:04,409 sure that most of the lithium is coming 555 00:21:04,410 --> 00:21:06,479 from Chile, and it's not too bad 556 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,609 I wasn't wrong. But actually, this 557 00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:09,960 changed in the last two years. 558 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,989 These days, most of the lithium is coming 559 00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:14,879 from Australia. 560 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,039 And what changed 561 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,469 is that lithium 562 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:22,019 used to be mined simply by pumping 563 00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:24,329 water into the ground into 564 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:26,459 salt layers where you had a lot of 565 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:28,619 lithium salts pumping the 566 00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:30,689 water up, evaporating it, 567 00:21:30,690 --> 00:21:33,119 concentrating it and extracting 568 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,140 that everything from that. 569 00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:37,429 Um, there are some spots 570 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:39,019 where this is possible, and it's actually 571 00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:40,400 quite easy and also quite cheap. 572 00:21:41,780 --> 00:21:43,939 But that's limited 573 00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:46,039 and we're pretty much run up to 574 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,040 the limit. 575 00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:50,150 In Australia, what they're doing is 576 00:21:51,290 --> 00:21:53,119 mining or ores. 577 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,299 Like this one here spodumene. 578 00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:58,489 This is a lithium 579 00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:59,989 lithium aluminum silicate. 580 00:22:01,010 --> 00:22:03,109 And in theory, they 581 00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:05,239 could contain about the earths 582 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,639 themselves could contain 583 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,979 about six point eight percent 584 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:11,359 of lithium by weight. 585 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,449 I know that's lithium oxide, so it's a 586 00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:17,059 bit it's about half that's about 587 00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:19,219 three three to four percent of 588 00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:20,299 lithium. 589 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,219 But typically, you would get maybe one 590 00:22:22,220 --> 00:22:24,319 percent of lithium by weight, and that's 591 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,369 just for two. Or you have to get to the 592 00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:27,859 oil itself. 593 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:29,929 And you when 594 00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:31,579 you when you mined something, you not 595 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:33,739 only get yourself, but also other 596 00:22:33,740 --> 00:22:35,839 stuff. So actually, you 597 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,089 need to mine maybe about a thousand 598 00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:40,519 tons of stuff in order to get one tonne 599 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,709 of lithium, and that 600 00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:44,899 sort of thing is done on a large scale in 601 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:45,900 Australia. 602 00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:49,919 And that's where, as you can see, 603 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,629 that's where it's coming from, and most 604 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:53,279 of that is, by the way, from Chinese 605 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,379 firms, because most of the 606 00:22:55,380 --> 00:22:56,760 battery summit in China, 607 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,929 cobalt cobalt is a huge 608 00:23:00,930 --> 00:23:01,930 problem, 609 00:23:03,030 --> 00:23:04,559 a problem. 610 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,509 For one thing, because we don't have too 611 00:23:06,510 --> 00:23:07,510 much of it. 612 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:10,739 As you have seen, it's about as much as 613 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:12,799 as lithium and you need a lot 614 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,139 more cobalt in your battery than you need 615 00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:17,209 of lithium simply because, I mean, it's 616 00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:18,469 the same number of atoms. 617 00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:20,269 You know, if you had lithium cobalt 618 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:22,429 oxide, you need one lithium atom 619 00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:24,229 and you need one cobalt atom. 620 00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:26,509 But the problem is cobalt is a cobalt 621 00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:28,249 atom is about 10 times as heavy as a 622 00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:29,389 lithium atom. 623 00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:31,459 So you need a lot more cobalt, then 624 00:23:31,460 --> 00:23:32,749 you need lithium. 625 00:23:32,750 --> 00:23:34,819 And so we first 626 00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:36,529 ran into the problem of running out of 627 00:23:36,530 --> 00:23:37,530 cobalt. 628 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,859 Cobalt is mostly mined in the Congo. 629 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:42,979 Um, you will have seen a lot 630 00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:45,109 of pictures like this one 631 00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:47,689 and much worse ones also. 632 00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:49,789 And about a quarter of 633 00:23:49,790 --> 00:23:51,020 the cobalt is mined 634 00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:54,109 in the Congo. 635 00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:54,999 No, sorry. 636 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,079 Two thirds of all the cobalt is mined in 637 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,659 the Congo and one quarter 638 00:23:59,660 --> 00:24:02,059 it. It depends, depends on 639 00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:04,309 on the economy, on the current 640 00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:05,779 economic conditions. 641 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:07,339 Something between 10 percent and a 642 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:09,799 quarter of all the cobalt in 643 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,899 in Congo is 644 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,039 mined by small scale farms like 645 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,799 small-scale mines like this. 646 00:24:17,030 --> 00:24:19,099 But most of it also mostly 647 00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,199 by Chinese companies, 648 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,879 or at least to a large part by Chinese 649 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,099 companies mined in something like this. 650 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:26,100 I didn't. 651 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,179 If you go and look for pictures 652 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:31,669 of cobalt mindset are free to use, 653 00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:33,169 you only find this. 654 00:24:33,170 --> 00:24:35,279 So I have a place that is actually 655 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,429 a copper mine. I'm sorry, but I 656 00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:39,679 really didn't find a free picture 657 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,019 of a large scale cobalt mine anywhere. 658 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:46,459 Um, but main problem 659 00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:48,949 is really the Democratic 660 00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:51,739 Republic of Congo is a 661 00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:52,729 war zone. 662 00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:54,799 What one poor 663 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,959 country, and it's 664 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,759 really worth reading up on the history of 665 00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:59,719 this country. 666 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,709 And that's the problem. 667 00:25:00,710 --> 00:25:02,599 The problem is not cobalt cobalt, it's 668 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,759 just it's just an element somewhere in 669 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,659 the table. 670 00:25:05,660 --> 00:25:07,849 Don't blame the cobalt blame, the 671 00:25:07,850 --> 00:25:09,409 blame, the social situation in this 672 00:25:09,410 --> 00:25:10,410 country. 673 00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:13,159 And aside from that, we still have 674 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,089 limited reserves. 675 00:25:14,090 --> 00:25:16,249 So there's there are many good 676 00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:18,379 reasons not to have cobalt or to at 677 00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:20,509 least reduce the amount of cobalt you can 678 00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:22,609 have and is 679 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:23,989 what has been done. 680 00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:26,240 Also, because culverts getting expensive, 681 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,629 the more you know, the more demand 682 00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:31,339 there is for cobalt, the higher the 683 00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:33,769 prices get and when when demand 684 00:25:33,770 --> 00:25:36,319 outstrips the supply, prices 685 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,249 just skyrocket. 686 00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:39,379 So people had to find alternatives 687 00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:41,629 and they did. Um, 688 00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:44,539 these days, modern nickel 689 00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:47,299 sorry, modern lithium ion batteries 690 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:48,979 use something like nickel manganese 691 00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:51,139 cobalt mixtures instead of just 692 00:25:51,140 --> 00:25:52,459 pure cobalt. 693 00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:54,829 Um, and you have numbers 694 00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:58,009 like five, three, two or eight one one 695 00:25:58,010 --> 00:26:00,169 eight one one means eight eight 696 00:26:00,170 --> 00:26:02,329 parts nickel, one manganese and 697 00:26:02,330 --> 00:26:03,979 one part cobalt. 698 00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:06,349 So today, 699 00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:08,539 batteries use between one tenth 700 00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:10,489 and one third of the amount of cobalt 701 00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:12,470 that they that they used to use. 702 00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:16,049 There also are other possibilities you 703 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:17,729 can use something like lithium ion 704 00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:19,949 phosphate has no 705 00:26:19,950 --> 00:26:21,299 cobalt in it at all. 706 00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:23,279 But the problem is you only get about 707 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,280 half the. 708 00:26:25,950 --> 00:26:27,779 You only get half the capacity out of the 709 00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:30,269 battery and 710 00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:32,129 especially when you have something like a 711 00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:34,079 car that you want to have as much range 712 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,039 as possible. 713 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,049 That's not really an option, at least for 714 00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:38,639 this. Um. 715 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,189 It has other positive properties 716 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:43,259 like it's much more robust. 717 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:45,899 It cannot decompose thermally 718 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:48,089 like a lot of the 719 00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:51,239 cobalt like, um, 720 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,319 materials can. 721 00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:57,329 But it's possible lithium 722 00:26:57,330 --> 00:26:59,459 sulfide, lithium 723 00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:01,739 sulfide is something that everybody 724 00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:03,509 would really want to have. 725 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:07,589 And trust me, it's not for want of 726 00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:10,049 trying because, you know, sulfur 727 00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:12,209 is only half an atom of 728 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:14,309 sulfur and they're half as 729 00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:16,859 heavy as an atom of cobalt. 730 00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:20,489 And you can have two lithium atoms 731 00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:23,669 together with one sulfur atom. 732 00:27:23,670 --> 00:27:25,769 The problem is the lithium 733 00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:27,239 has to some. 734 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,279 Somehow you have to get rid of the you 735 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,289 have to divide the lithium and the and 736 00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:33,359 the sulfur, and 737 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,459 then you divide lithium into sulfur. 738 00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:37,529 At some point you do it in 739 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:38,439 stages. 740 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,499 You know, at first you have like two 741 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:42,689 lithium atoms and one sulfur 742 00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:44,879 atom, and at 743 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,170 some point you have, 744 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,129 I don't know, one lithium and one sarafa 745 00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:52,529 and then you have two lithium 746 00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:54,659 and three sulfur and so on, and you do 747 00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:56,909 it in stages. And one of these stages, 748 00:27:56,910 --> 00:27:59,609 unfortunately, is liquid inside 749 00:27:59,610 --> 00:28:01,890 of the inside of the electrolyte. 750 00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:05,279 And that means that your cathode 751 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,559 is now suddenly soluble 752 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,719 and it begins to slowly but surely 753 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,849 destroy itself every time you charge 754 00:28:11,850 --> 00:28:13,829 or discharge the battery. 755 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:15,959 And this is a problem that 756 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,459 hasn't actually been solved yet. 757 00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:19,589 There are companies that sell this 758 00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:21,809 lithium sulfide batteries, but only 759 00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:24,029 have a relatively short 760 00:28:24,030 --> 00:28:25,030 life. 761 00:28:25,530 --> 00:28:27,539 And the way they do that is by just 762 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:29,849 putting a heck of a lot of material and 763 00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:32,549 a lot of lithium sulfide into the battery 764 00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:35,039 so that it, well, 765 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,259 it still destroys itself, but it takes 766 00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:39,059 longer until it's completely gone. 767 00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:43,220 The possibility is there. 768 00:28:44,530 --> 00:28:46,839 Lithium air batteries, also 769 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,459 one of the dreams that everybody wants to 770 00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:50,230 have and lots of people trying 771 00:28:51,310 --> 00:28:53,889 is actually this is 772 00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:56,199 this actually works almost like a fuel 773 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,329 cell, except with 774 00:28:58,330 --> 00:29:01,029 lithium on one side instead of hydrogen 775 00:29:01,030 --> 00:29:03,699 and air on the other side. 776 00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,129 The problem is that you now 777 00:29:06,130 --> 00:29:08,619 form your form and 778 00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:12,429 lithium oxide on 779 00:29:12,430 --> 00:29:14,709 one side of the on the cathode side 780 00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:15,710 of the electrolyte, 781 00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:19,749 and it's very hard to really maintain 782 00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:21,699 the integrity of this of this whole 783 00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:22,700 thing. 784 00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:26,139 And especially, 785 00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:29,139 I mean, it works in very thin layers. 786 00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:30,699 But if you want to have a thick layer and 787 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:32,409 you would need a thick layer in order to 788 00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:34,479 actually exploit this, because 789 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,339 I mean, remember, what you have here is 790 00:29:36,340 --> 00:29:38,799 just lithium on one side, only lithium 791 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,529 atoms and nothing else on the other side. 792 00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:43,509 That would be great and would be perfect. 793 00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:45,669 It would be like two kilowatt hours 794 00:29:45,670 --> 00:29:47,739 per kilogram of battery. 795 00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:49,239 I would be really nice. 796 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,240 But. 797 00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:53,349 It really doesn't work, you need you 798 00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:55,479 only get it in very thin layers and 799 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,669 then you have a relatively 800 00:29:57,670 --> 00:29:59,469 speaking thick layer of electrolyte 801 00:29:59,470 --> 00:30:01,029 between that and so long as the 802 00:30:01,030 --> 00:30:03,249 electrolytes that you need are so thick 803 00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:05,409 that they make up more weight of 804 00:30:05,410 --> 00:30:07,829 the battery than the actual lithium 805 00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:10,509 you are traveling back and forth, 806 00:30:10,510 --> 00:30:12,309 the extra capacity is still worse than 807 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:13,689 what we have today. 808 00:30:13,690 --> 00:30:15,729 And you also have to make sure you can 809 00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:17,739 cycle of this without losing any of the 810 00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:19,719 lithium on the airside. 811 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,849 And it's um, it's a bit 812 00:30:21,850 --> 00:30:23,439 of a mess. It's a bit of a problem. 813 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,689 And nobody had solved this yet has solved 814 00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:26,690 this yet. 815 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,880 Yeah. 816 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,629 OK. You have the other the other 817 00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:37,739 slide before that, that's why, yeah, 818 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:39,709 this is just as rare as cobalt. 819 00:30:39,710 --> 00:30:41,779 And we have to we have to 820 00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:43,939 replace this at some point, maybe 821 00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:46,459 as well because lithium supply is 822 00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:48,619 is limited and we have to get like 823 00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:50,839 20 times as much 824 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,489 batteries into production as we have 825 00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:53,490 currently. 826 00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:57,919 OK, anode materials 827 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,719 right now, we have talked about one side 828 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,509 of the battery, now it's the other side, 829 00:31:01,510 --> 00:31:03,139 you remember the graphite with the six 830 00:31:03,140 --> 00:31:04,579 carbon atoms. 831 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:06,739 Well, you can improve this if you don't 832 00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:09,379 use graphite, you can use graphene 833 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:11,689 or Crawford 834 00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:14,389 or some nanotubes or multiple nanotubes. 835 00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:16,309 Unicorns might help. 836 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:18,759 Maybe unicorns can make those cheaper. 837 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,229 But no, right now 838 00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:23,269 they are. You can find a lot of papers 839 00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:24,270 and a lot of 840 00:31:26,270 --> 00:31:28,549 a lot of science being done with 841 00:31:28,550 --> 00:31:30,619 graphene and nanotubes and so on. 842 00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:32,839 And it works. It actually does work. 843 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,149 The problem is, this 844 00:31:35,150 --> 00:31:36,799 is about as expensive as gold. 845 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,389 Maybe not quite, but almost. 846 00:31:38,390 --> 00:31:40,459 And it's not useful for for batteries 847 00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:42,529 right now. Maybe someday 848 00:31:42,530 --> 00:31:44,869 somebody gets to make those on the cheap 849 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:46,460 and then it's an option. 850 00:31:47,660 --> 00:31:49,669 Silicon and phosphorus could help as 851 00:31:49,670 --> 00:31:51,889 well. It could improve upon the graphene 852 00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:54,049 on the graphite have much higher 853 00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:56,329 capacities because especially 854 00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:58,849 with silicon, silicon forms an alloy 855 00:31:58,850 --> 00:32:00,500 with lithium and 856 00:32:01,670 --> 00:32:04,669 it's you get much better ratios 857 00:32:04,670 --> 00:32:07,159 and so you can get much higher capacity. 858 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,259 The problem is when you 859 00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:11,329 when you perform such an alloy, 860 00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:13,429 what you get is much bigger. 861 00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:15,259 The electrode just gets much bigger. 862 00:32:15,260 --> 00:32:16,819 It gets four times as big as it was 863 00:32:16,820 --> 00:32:17,779 before. 864 00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:20,149 And this puts a lot of stress 865 00:32:20,150 --> 00:32:22,639 on the material and it starts to crack. 866 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,889 And basically, every 867 00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:26,509 time you use the battery again, it 868 00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:28,279 destroys itself. 869 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,280 That's not helpful. 870 00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:32,959 Um, maybe. 871 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,029 I mean, there are tricks some people 872 00:32:35,030 --> 00:32:37,159 make lithium like, 873 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,009 like the wafers we use in chips 874 00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:41,839 and make them very small, and you have 875 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,939 very small structures that can store 876 00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:46,429 the atom inside of them 877 00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:48,049 without cracking because they are very 878 00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:49,050 small, 879 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,249 but they never talk about 880 00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:54,109 price for some reason. 881 00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:55,039 I don't know why. 882 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,049 I think it might be too expensive. 883 00:32:57,050 --> 00:32:58,279 Um. 884 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,419 OK. 885 00:32:59,420 --> 00:33:01,579 The other the other thing you can do and 886 00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:03,319 there is active research, and it's quite 887 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,660 promising. Actually, it's pure lithium. 888 00:33:07,670 --> 00:33:09,409 Just nothing. 889 00:33:09,410 --> 00:33:11,539 The reason why nothing hasn't been 890 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:12,619 done before is 891 00:33:14,030 --> 00:33:15,619 the lithium. When you when you grow 892 00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:18,169 lithium by Bielik 893 00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:20,419 by electrochemical means, you 894 00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:23,119 just put one atom onto 895 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,829 whatever lithium is already there 896 00:33:25,850 --> 00:33:28,639 and you do it by 897 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,859 you do it by an electric field and all 898 00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:33,259 the atoms go where ever there is the 899 00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:34,700 strongest electric field. 900 00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:38,089 Problem is, the strongest electric field 901 00:33:38,090 --> 00:33:40,429 is wherever there's like a little peak, 902 00:33:40,430 --> 00:33:42,799 a little bit of like, 903 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,959 yeah, like a needle, the point of 904 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,519 the needle or something like that. 905 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,989 And that's where they go. 906 00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:50,329 So what you get is 10 traits 907 00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:52,549 that is like, like small needle like 908 00:33:52,550 --> 00:33:54,679 projections that grow ever more 909 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:55,999 and ever faster. 910 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,129 And that has prevented use of 911 00:33:58,130 --> 00:34:01,129 just just pure lithium anodes, 912 00:34:01,130 --> 00:34:03,439 even though that would essentially halve 913 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,249 the weight of the battery. 914 00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:06,709 And that's why people want to use it. 915 00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:08,599 You would you would just cut the battery 916 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,849 and the weight of the battery in half 917 00:34:10,850 --> 00:34:12,948 and get about twice to twice the 918 00:34:12,949 --> 00:34:13,949 capacity. 919 00:34:15,170 --> 00:34:17,029 What you need a cell is solid 920 00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:19,609 electrolytes because you see 921 00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:21,589 right now the electrolyte. 922 00:34:21,590 --> 00:34:23,178 That's the stuff that's between the 923 00:34:23,179 --> 00:34:26,119 cathode and the anode is a liquid. 924 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,369 And that's why these then fights can form 925 00:34:28,370 --> 00:34:30,738 when the electrolyte is solid, 926 00:34:30,739 --> 00:34:33,138 like in sodium sulfur battery, 927 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:34,789 you know, like the hot stuff that we had 928 00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:36,259 before from Ford. 929 00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:38,629 And there's there's already something 930 00:34:38,630 --> 00:34:40,218 solid in between there. 931 00:34:40,219 --> 00:34:42,919 And so nothing can can grow through it, 932 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,539 at least if it's solid enough. 933 00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:48,329 And people are working on 934 00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:49,499 this. 935 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,178 They have made some advances. 936 00:34:51,179 --> 00:34:53,428 One of the problems is it's 937 00:34:53,429 --> 00:34:54,928 still a bit too heavy. 938 00:34:54,929 --> 00:34:57,539 The a bit too thick and too heavy, 939 00:34:57,540 --> 00:34:58,540 and 940 00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:01,289 it's a fairly slow process. 941 00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:03,029 You have, I mean, after all, it's no 942 00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:04,469 longer a liquid. 943 00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:06,629 You have to get the ions through 944 00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:07,949 through a solid material. 945 00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:15,249 So the other problem. 946 00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:17,439 Yeah, I as I said, I switched 947 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,419 to slides around, so now we talk about 948 00:35:19,420 --> 00:35:20,469 sodium. 949 00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:22,420 Sodium can replace lithium. 950 00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:25,599 As I already said, sodium 951 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,849 is about three times as heavy as lithium, 952 00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:30,039 so it's not 953 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,569 it's not perfect. 954 00:35:31,570 --> 00:35:33,399 But on the other hand, since lithium 955 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,649 currently only makes up about 956 00:35:35,650 --> 00:35:37,719 maybe three to five percent of the 957 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,149 whole of the weight of the total battery, 958 00:35:41,710 --> 00:35:43,359 switching to something that's three times 959 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,669 as heavy isn't quite 960 00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:47,319 so bad. 961 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,779 One of the problems is that there's 962 00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:52,029 a lot less development that has been 963 00:35:52,030 --> 00:35:54,159 done on on using sodium instead 964 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,229 of lithium simply because, you know, 965 00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:57,849 people started using lithium 966 00:35:58,870 --> 00:36:00,249 because it was the best performing 967 00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:02,589 material and it was plenty of lithium 968 00:36:02,590 --> 00:36:03,879 around. Why not? 969 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,979 I mean, especially in the 1990s, lithium 970 00:36:05,980 --> 00:36:08,229 was mostly used as a grease or 971 00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:10,329 as, I don't know, 972 00:36:10,330 --> 00:36:11,559 like like four colors. 973 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,839 I think I'm they didn't. 974 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,040 They didn't use a lot of it. 975 00:36:16,220 --> 00:36:18,319 So there was plenty there was a lot 976 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,399 of supply of it. 977 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,499 And so why why waste your work 978 00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:23,029 on sodium when you have something that 979 00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:25,159 works and something that is always going 980 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,690 to get you better performance? 981 00:36:29,610 --> 00:36:31,919 So sodium will always be the back, 982 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,319 the second best in performance. 983 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,479 And so people didn't really start 984 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,859 development on it. 985 00:36:37,860 --> 00:36:39,839 They have started development on it in 986 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,549 the last couple of years, maybe this 987 00:36:41,550 --> 00:36:42,629 decade. 988 00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:44,969 You get a lot more papers if you search 989 00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:47,849 online and scholar, Google 990 00:36:47,850 --> 00:36:49,259 Scholar, Google dot com. 991 00:36:49,260 --> 00:36:51,269 If you didn't know that page, it helps a 992 00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:52,270 lot to find 993 00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:54,419 scientific material 994 00:36:56,010 --> 00:36:58,109 and you find a lot more work 995 00:36:58,110 --> 00:36:59,759 on this. And there are even some 996 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,069 companies that are selling them 997 00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:04,229 more like as trials than as 998 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:06,219 actual products, but at least that 999 00:37:06,220 --> 00:37:08,729 something and they have capacities of 140 1000 00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:10,349 watt hours per kilogram, and that's 1001 00:37:10,350 --> 00:37:12,929 similar to what we had in the year 2000 1002 00:37:12,930 --> 00:37:14,369 and lithium ion batteries. 1003 00:37:14,370 --> 00:37:16,439 So development lags 1004 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,239 behind about 20 years roughly, 1005 00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:21,989 and they still don't have this same kind 1006 00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:24,089 of durability and cycle life 1007 00:37:24,090 --> 00:37:25,169 that we expect today. 1008 00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:27,149 They have they can sustain maybe two or 1009 00:37:27,150 --> 00:37:29,309 three hundred cycles these 1010 00:37:29,310 --> 00:37:30,989 days. We expect a lot more than that. 1011 00:37:32,730 --> 00:37:34,409 All that is the result, because there's 1012 00:37:34,410 --> 00:37:35,999 there has been much less development in 1013 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,509 the materials overall, um, 1014 00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:41,759 sodium is very similar to lithium, but 1015 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,639 there are always some subtle changes. 1016 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,039 And it just needs to be understood. 1017 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,069 It's simply, you need a lot of 1018 00:37:50,070 --> 00:37:52,079 a lot of scientists on benches and in 1019 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,329 front of their computers crunching data, 1020 00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:57,299 doing his experiments just to find out 1021 00:37:57,300 --> 00:37:59,159 what we don't understand and what we do 1022 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,160 wrong. 1023 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,569 Yeah. 1024 00:38:03,570 --> 00:38:06,269 The other problem is, I mean, batteries 1025 00:38:06,270 --> 00:38:08,849 are great for great for 1026 00:38:08,850 --> 00:38:11,219 stuff like this microphone or my 1027 00:38:11,220 --> 00:38:13,529 smartphone or maybe a car, 1028 00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:15,869 but at some point you want to store 1029 00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:16,979 more energy. 1030 00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:20,439 And batteries won't cut it, 1031 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,569 and it's not lithium batteries, 1032 00:38:22,570 --> 00:38:24,909 sodium, maybe sodium, 1033 00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:27,129 there's huge amounts of 1034 00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:28,959 sodium. We're not going to run out of 1035 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,609 sodium, trust me. 1036 00:38:30,610 --> 00:38:32,769 Um, but you still 1037 00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:33,759 have. 1038 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,289 When you have a battery, you still have 1039 00:38:35,290 --> 00:38:37,899 to. You have to purify the materials. 1040 00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:39,279 You have to assemble them. 1041 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,559 There's a lot of processing going on, 1042 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,649 and that's a problem 1043 00:38:43,650 --> 00:38:45,159 when to when you want to have something 1044 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,499 that's really big, something 1045 00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:50,559 that can store a huge amount of energy 1046 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,929 like we like we need 1047 00:38:52,930 --> 00:38:54,459 for for storing. 1048 00:38:54,460 --> 00:38:56,739 Yeah, something like the grid level 1049 00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:57,740 energy. 1050 00:38:59,110 --> 00:39:01,269 I've given you I mean, if you if you read 1051 00:39:01,270 --> 00:39:03,789 about it in the news 1052 00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:05,979 or in articles, you 1053 00:39:05,980 --> 00:39:08,499 usually find something like this. 1054 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:10,239 This is from June. 1055 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,909 This is perfect for for solar energy, 1056 00:39:12,910 --> 00:39:14,979 as you can see lots of solar energy. 1057 00:39:14,980 --> 00:39:17,529 But right now, this is 1058 00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:18,789 where you had this month 1059 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,150 almost no solar energy and we had 1060 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,269 some wind, except when 1061 00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:27,339 there's not. And we 1062 00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:29,709 kind of need to kind of need to store 1063 00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:31,929 the wind and order the wind energy 1064 00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:32,930 in order to, 1065 00:39:34,210 --> 00:39:35,829 yeah, in order to have energy when we 1066 00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:38,049 need it with solar energy, 1067 00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:39,050 it's much easier. 1068 00:39:40,180 --> 00:39:43,149 But the trouble is, we're here at 1069 00:39:43,150 --> 00:39:45,459 ninety one degrees north and 1070 00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:48,069 at 19 and 91 degrees north 1071 00:39:48,070 --> 00:39:50,439 here in Leipzig, for example. 1072 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,449 It kind of looks like this in winter. 1073 00:39:52,450 --> 00:39:54,639 It's cold and it's cold because we don't 1074 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,260 get a lot of solar energy right here. 1075 00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,049 That's very different when you're 1076 00:39:59,050 --> 00:40:01,989 somewhere in California or 1077 00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:02,979 even in Spain. 1078 00:40:02,980 --> 00:40:05,169 I mean, Spain is already a few degrees 1079 00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:07,449 further south and 1080 00:40:07,450 --> 00:40:09,459 they did. They get a lot more sun in 1081 00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:11,529 winter, as you can tell from 1082 00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:12,670 the temperatures, actually. 1083 00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:17,109 And so you can rely much more on 1084 00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:19,299 the cycle of this sort of energy, like 1085 00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:21,519 every 24 hours and so on. 1086 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,769 But here we need 1087 00:40:23,770 --> 00:40:24,769 much more storage. 1088 00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:26,979 We need to be able to store 1089 00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:29,199 energy from times like this 1090 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,419 and use it in times like these 1091 00:40:31,420 --> 00:40:32,920 when we when you don't get any. 1092 00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:36,759 And now we're talking 1093 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,719 about. 1094 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:41,109 I mean, we need 80, 1095 00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:43,869 I think. Yeah, I have it on this slide. 1096 00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:46,419 I mean, the amounts we need is huge. 1097 00:40:46,420 --> 00:40:48,789 40 gigawatt hours, 1098 00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:51,159 by the way, 150 gigawatt hours 1099 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,229 is the worldwide production 1100 00:40:53,230 --> 00:40:54,909 of lithium ion batteries. 1101 00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:57,039 OK, 40 gigawatt hours in Germany 1102 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,259 is enough for 30 minutes of power 1103 00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:00,260 supply. 1104 00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:04,029 Let's say we really need a heck 1105 00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:05,030 of a lot. 1106 00:41:05,590 --> 00:41:08,049 One of the large scale, what we consider 1107 00:41:08,050 --> 00:41:10,119 large scale storage 1108 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,819 possibilities is pumped storage 1109 00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:14,289 and problem. 1110 00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:15,290 He has physics. 1111 00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:19,010 Physics like this 1112 00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:22,480 is m d h 1113 00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:25,779 m is the amount of water the mass of the 1114 00:41:25,780 --> 00:41:26,859 water. 1115 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:29,049 H is the height to which you pump it 1116 00:41:29,050 --> 00:41:31,419 and is the gravity. 1117 00:41:31,420 --> 00:41:32,889 We've maxed out gravity. 1118 00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:35,019 Actually, in this solar system, 1119 00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:36,579 you will not find a solid surface that 1120 00:41:36,580 --> 00:41:38,590 has that has more gravity than ours, 1121 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,949 so we cannot optimize that further. 1122 00:41:41,950 --> 00:41:43,139 I'm sorry. 1123 00:41:43,140 --> 00:41:45,699 Um, height, if you get 1124 00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:47,229 something that's better than this, I 1125 00:41:47,230 --> 00:41:48,759 mean, this is not three hundred and sixty 1126 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,829 meters, but I assume Kitwana 1127 00:41:50,830 --> 00:41:53,049 and 60 meters for one simple reason 1128 00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:54,909 it's easy to do the math for them. 1129 00:41:54,910 --> 00:41:56,770 Then you need one ton of water 1130 00:41:57,970 --> 00:42:00,159 to store one kilowatt hour 1131 00:42:01,690 --> 00:42:03,939 and, you know, 1132 00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:06,009 one kilowatt hour for one, for 1133 00:42:06,010 --> 00:42:07,629 one ton of material. 1134 00:42:07,630 --> 00:42:09,039 That's a heck of a lot. 1135 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,379 And that's why these are almost 1136 00:42:11,380 --> 00:42:13,899 always huge and don't store 1137 00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:15,039 a lot of energy. 1138 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,379 And the total total storage is something 1139 00:42:17,380 --> 00:42:18,999 on the order of 40 gigawatt hours in 1140 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,000 Germany. 1141 00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:23,889 There have been other 1142 00:42:23,890 --> 00:42:25,719 other proposals, like compressed air 1143 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:26,720 storage. 1144 00:42:27,490 --> 00:42:30,459 What are you doing here in Germany? 1145 00:42:30,460 --> 00:42:32,889 We have there used to be a sea 1146 00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:35,409 here around Germany and 1147 00:42:35,410 --> 00:42:37,629 a lot of these, a lot of the salt 1148 00:42:37,630 --> 00:42:39,879 water from the oceans evaporated 1149 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,649 and left behind a lot of salt. 1150 00:42:41,650 --> 00:42:43,659 And we get these salt domes. 1151 00:42:43,660 --> 00:42:45,789 And so what you can do is you can 1152 00:42:45,790 --> 00:42:48,189 make holes in the inside the salt 1153 00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:50,439 simply by pumping water down into 1154 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,899 the salt and dissolving the salt. 1155 00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:54,969 And yeah, then you have a huge 1156 00:42:54,970 --> 00:42:57,099 hole in the ground, except you cannot see 1157 00:42:57,100 --> 00:42:59,440 it from the from the from the surface. 1158 00:43:01,140 --> 00:43:03,389 He it's it's it's a bit better 1159 00:43:03,390 --> 00:43:05,429 than the pumped storage. 1160 00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:07,499 When you do the math on it, you can get 1161 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,509 about three kilowatt hours per ton of 1162 00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:10,499 salt that here. 1163 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:12,180 That you have removed from the ground. 1164 00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:15,809 Um, this assumes 1165 00:43:15,810 --> 00:43:17,909 70 bar you 1166 00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:19,589 can have. If you go deeper into the 1167 00:43:19,590 --> 00:43:21,449 ground, you can have higher pressure. 1168 00:43:21,450 --> 00:43:23,669 You can have more more than this, 1169 00:43:24,690 --> 00:43:26,069 but it's kind of limited. 1170 00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:29,089 And also, you have a hole in the ground 1171 00:43:29,090 --> 00:43:31,189 in this hole where collapse sooner 1172 00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:32,089 or later. 1173 00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:34,429 I mean, these holes are stable for 1174 00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:35,430 for us. 1175 00:43:36,290 --> 00:43:38,539 They're stable for centuries, maybe 1176 00:43:38,540 --> 00:43:39,540 thousands of years, 1177 00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:42,469 but eventually they will collapse. 1178 00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:43,699 Something will go down. 1179 00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:45,769 And sometimes when people don't 1180 00:43:45,770 --> 00:43:47,779 pay enough attention, when we're making 1181 00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:49,669 these holes, that actually happens. 1182 00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:51,859 And you can you can find accidents 1183 00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:53,030 where this actually happened. 1184 00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:56,510 OK. How do you how does this work? 1185 00:43:58,130 --> 00:44:00,289 Um, well, it's very simple. 1186 00:44:00,290 --> 00:44:01,819 You pump the air in 1187 00:44:02,990 --> 00:44:04,309 and you take it out. 1188 00:44:04,310 --> 00:44:06,859 You go to let it flow through a turbine. 1189 00:44:06,860 --> 00:44:08,739 It's almost like wind energy, except for 1190 00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:11,269 very good turbine and 1191 00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:13,399 you get energy from it. 1192 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,469 Problem is, when you compress the air, 1193 00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:17,839 it gets really hot and 1194 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,519 then you saw it and it gets cold. 1195 00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:22,309 And then you let it out and you 1196 00:44:22,310 --> 00:44:24,439 decompress it, and when you decompress, 1197 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,569 it gets even colder, and that's 1198 00:44:26,570 --> 00:44:27,739 how you lose a lot of energy. 1199 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,529 And so what is done? 1200 00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:32,359 There's one of these is in Germany, 1201 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,109 actually, there's one in Germany and one 1202 00:44:34,110 --> 00:44:35,479 in the US. 1203 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,989 And what they do here is they burn, 1204 00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:41,119 they burn natural 1205 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,219 gas in order to make up for the heat 1206 00:44:43,220 --> 00:44:44,220 that was lost. 1207 00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:46,820 It actually makes the idea. 1208 00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:49,969 It makes the the 1209 00:44:49,970 --> 00:44:52,579 the power plant itself more efficient. 1210 00:44:52,580 --> 00:44:54,979 But yeah, it's not exactly 1211 00:44:54,980 --> 00:44:55,980 renewable. 1212 00:44:56,530 --> 00:44:58,789 Um, what people 1213 00:44:58,790 --> 00:45:00,619 actually want to do is store the heat. 1214 00:45:00,620 --> 00:45:03,379 So as I said, when you compress the air, 1215 00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:05,479 it gets hot and then you want to store 1216 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:06,679 the heat. 1217 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,959 And when you decompress it, 1218 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,999 you put the heat into the decompressed 1219 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,129 air and heat it up again and 1220 00:45:13,130 --> 00:45:14,299 it gets much more efficient. 1221 00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:16,429 So instead of 45 percent, you get up to 1222 00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:17,510 about 70 percent. 1223 00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:21,099 Oh, damn it, OK. 1224 00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:22,759 I was way too slow. 1225 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,549 The way you can store the seed is 1226 00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:26,869 something like this. 1227 00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:29,359 Um, how much storage? 1228 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,009 There's a lot of thermal storage using 1229 00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:32,059 liquid salt. 1230 00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:34,759 Liquid salt is not terribly 1231 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,589 efficient at that task, especially 1232 00:45:36,590 --> 00:45:39,619 because very high temperatures, 1233 00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:41,690 but you can actually use stones 1234 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,420 like volcanic rock. 1235 00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:47,599 Ah, I think Siemens is 1236 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,519 building something like this. 1237 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,389 And what they use this basalt rocks 1238 00:45:53,390 --> 00:45:55,459 like, but this big, I mean, 1239 00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:57,589 a couple of centimeters, I mean, like 1240 00:45:57,590 --> 00:45:59,029 the pellets you can see here. 1241 00:45:59,030 --> 00:46:02,029 And it's a very, very, very slow, 1242 00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:04,159 very slow at 1243 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,750 very small storage, 1244 00:46:06,830 --> 00:46:07,830 dump storage. 1245 00:46:09,020 --> 00:46:10,790 You want to build these things big. 1246 00:46:12,380 --> 00:46:14,779 Um, and when you build them really 1247 00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:16,250 big, they're really efficient 1248 00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:18,690 because, 1249 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,339 you know, it's a matter of geometry 1250 00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:24,769 when you have something like a cube. 1251 00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:27,589 And it's one meter on each side 1252 00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:29,600 and you make it two times as big. 1253 00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:34,019 Two times it's two times this white, 1254 00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:36,329 two times as long, two times as high. 1255 00:46:36,330 --> 00:46:38,489 It has eight times the volume, 1256 00:46:38,490 --> 00:46:41,759 but only four times the surface area. 1257 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,709 And when you only. 1258 00:46:43,710 --> 00:46:46,049 And the problem is you lose 1259 00:46:46,050 --> 00:46:47,880 heat through the surface area. 1260 00:46:49,070 --> 00:46:51,109 So when you have eight times the volume 1261 00:46:51,110 --> 00:46:53,269 and four times the surface area, it means 1262 00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:55,399 that your heat losses are only half 1263 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:56,400 as big. 1264 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,139 And that's not actually enough, because 1265 00:47:00,140 --> 00:47:02,239 when you take something like this and you 1266 00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:03,619 build it two times this big 1267 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,829 and you will also 1268 00:47:06,830 --> 00:47:08,809 make these parts two times this week, and 1269 00:47:08,810 --> 00:47:11,149 that's the that's the insulation. 1270 00:47:11,150 --> 00:47:12,409 And when you make the insulation two 1271 00:47:12,410 --> 00:47:14,659 times this big, you also reduce 1272 00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:16,909 the losses by a factor 1273 00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:18,079 of two. 1274 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,239 So when you build something like this 1275 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,909 really, really, really seriously 1276 00:47:22,910 --> 00:47:23,910 big, 1277 00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:27,619 you can you have very small losses, 1278 00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:29,749 you have losses for for 1279 00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:31,789 small ones, you get losses of about one 1280 00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:33,169 percent per day. 1281 00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:35,239 And when you build them like a 1282 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:36,289 thousand times this big, 1283 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,679 you can in theory, get one 1284 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:40,680 tenth of that. 1285 00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:45,029 In theory, you could store heat 1286 00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:47,249 for weeks or even months in 1287 00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:48,250 this, and 1288 00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:50,620 you need 1289 00:47:52,380 --> 00:47:53,459 who I 1290 00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:56,729 I thought I had this memorized. 1291 00:47:56,730 --> 00:47:59,039 But you need, I think, about 10000 1292 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,529 tons in order to store one gigawatt 1293 00:48:01,530 --> 00:48:03,899 hours of of electrical energy 1294 00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:06,029 because you can actually use this to to 1295 00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:07,349 store electrical energy. 1296 00:48:09,540 --> 00:48:11,459 Yeah. OK, I'm sorry. 1297 00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:13,869 Everybody enthusiastic about hydrogen, 1298 00:48:13,870 --> 00:48:15,719 I will not be talking about hydrogen 1299 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:16,859 because I'm running out of time. 1300 00:48:18,340 --> 00:48:19,340 And 1301 00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:21,970 yeah. 1302 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,509 Big thing here is it has really 1303 00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:28,920 cheap raw materials. 1304 00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:32,489 Simple stones and 1305 00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:36,269 capacity is fairly high. 1306 00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:38,479 You get about 30 to 60 kilowatts, 1307 00:48:39,630 --> 00:48:42,569 30 to 60 watt hours per kilogram. 1308 00:48:42,570 --> 00:48:44,729 If you try to take the 1309 00:48:44,730 --> 00:48:46,949 heat because you can eat these up to 1310 00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:49,229 about seven 800 degrees 1311 00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:50,230 Celsius. 1312 00:48:51,590 --> 00:48:53,899 And run them through it come 1313 00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:55,739 turbine, like the turbines you have in 1314 00:48:55,740 --> 00:48:57,979 the coal powered power plant and 1315 00:48:57,980 --> 00:49:00,649 you get an efficiency of 45 1316 00:49:00,650 --> 00:49:02,509 percent out of this. 1317 00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:04,879 That's not very good, 1318 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,009 especially compared to a battery 1319 00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:08,689 where you would get efficiencies on the 1320 00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:10,789 order of 80 percent or 90 percent. 1321 00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:13,399 It kind of depends on how fast you charge 1322 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,459 if you have to test a Tesla supercharger. 1323 00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:18,859 You have much less efficient batteries 1324 00:49:18,860 --> 00:49:21,289 than if you take it slow. 1325 00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:22,310 It charges slowly. 1326 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,229 But for something as simple as this, 45 1327 00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:29,239 percent is pretty good, 1328 00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:32,299 especially because you can scale it up 1329 00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:34,279 into the gigawatt hour range and even 1330 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,409 tens of gigawatt hour range, which 1331 00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:38,030 is kind of like what we need. 1332 00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:43,399 Yeah. 1333 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,729 And all you need is stones, 1334 00:49:46,730 --> 00:49:48,679 fairly huge amounts of stones. 1335 00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:53,849 The reason why I think this is 1336 00:49:53,850 --> 00:49:56,309 a pretty good idea, 1337 00:49:56,310 --> 00:49:57,899 even though it's not perfect, as I said, 1338 00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:00,329 45 percent year you waste half the energy 1339 00:50:01,590 --> 00:50:03,839 is because hydrogen is even 1340 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,840 worse. 1341 00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:07,229 Yeah, OK. 1342 00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:08,759 I tried to do this in two minutes. 1343 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,519 I'm sorry, it's going to be very fast. 1344 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,739 OK? Hydrogen in theory, 1345 00:50:13,740 --> 00:50:15,539 it sounds great. You split water into 1346 00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:16,619 hydrogen and oxygen. 1347 00:50:16,620 --> 00:50:19,529 You use the hydrogen to get energy 1348 00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:21,779 and you have really great 1349 00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:22,979 density of energy. 1350 00:50:22,980 --> 00:50:25,229 You know, thirty nine kilowatt 1351 00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:27,329 hours per kilogram is really great. 1352 00:50:27,330 --> 00:50:29,519 You have theoretical efficiencies of 1353 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:30,899 eighty three percent. 1354 00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:33,239 And yeah, 1355 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:34,199 that sounds great. 1356 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,359 But in practice, what 1357 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,609 problem is the efficiencies are 1358 00:50:38,610 --> 00:50:40,409 usually related to the lower heating 1359 00:50:40,410 --> 00:50:42,539 value, which is not 1360 00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:44,069 the higher heating of values. 1361 00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:46,139 So there's a fudge factor of about 1362 00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:48,659 18 percent in the efficiency 1363 00:50:48,660 --> 00:50:50,249 or actually 10 percent in the 1364 00:50:50,250 --> 00:50:52,199 efficiencies when you get to the real 1365 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,200 efficiencies. 1366 00:50:53,970 --> 00:50:56,069 So when you 1367 00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:59,009 have when they say, OK, 60 percent 1368 00:50:59,010 --> 00:51:01,649 efficiency for the electrolysis, 1369 00:51:01,650 --> 00:51:03,929 you know, when they say 70 percent 1370 00:51:03,930 --> 00:51:05,609 efficiency for the electrolysis, the 1371 00:51:05,610 --> 00:51:07,709 reality is more like 60 percent. 1372 00:51:07,710 --> 00:51:09,929 And for the fuel cells, it's more like 1373 00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:12,179 50 percent than 60 percent. 1374 00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:14,819 And the reality is 1375 00:51:14,820 --> 00:51:16,979 when you take all the losses 1376 00:51:16,980 --> 00:51:19,049 into account, including in storage, 1377 00:51:19,050 --> 00:51:21,599 you get about one third and 1378 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,819 very often much less than 30 percent 1379 00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:26,189 of the energy out of it than you put into 1380 00:51:26,190 --> 00:51:27,269 it. I'm sorry. 1381 00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:28,529 That's a big problem. 1382 00:51:28,530 --> 00:51:30,149 OK, run on. I'm sorry. 1383 00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:31,230 I've run out of time. 1384 00:51:33,610 --> 00:51:35,829 To thank him for his great 1385 00:51:35,830 --> 00:51:36,569 effort. 1386 00:51:36,570 --> 00:51:37,749 And yet 1387 00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:41,199 I couldn't see that I really couldn't see 1388 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,089 the clock until just now. 1389 00:51:44,090 --> 00:51:45,099 OK, thank you. 1390 00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:47,289 What switch? It was switched off at 1391 00:51:47,290 --> 00:51:49,029 first. That's why I kept looking at my 1392 00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:50,380 watch. Sorry.