1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,636 *36c3 preroll music* 2 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,400 Herald-Engel: ...three persons here to announce, there is Andreas and if I'm 3 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,850 right, Sebastian, and if I'm right, because I have the code names, of course, 4 00:00:27,850 --> 00:00:32,930 Tamara. In their presentation, they have their real names. Something like that. 5 00:00:32,930 --> 00:00:39,010 Okay, their presentation is actually about a tool and we all know that we use 6 00:00:39,010 --> 00:00:43,530 electronic gadgets everywhere and but we are not aware about what actually the 7 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:47,710 human cost is of all these things. And they are developing a tool that shows us 8 00:00:47,710 --> 00:00:53,129 this information. And it could probably and hopefully help us a lot in defining 9 00:00:53,129 --> 00:00:58,400 what things we're going to use in our daily life. I want you to give them a 10 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,170 welcome applause. Please, go ahead. 11 00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:07,380 *Applause* 12 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:12,200 Sebastian: Good morning. Thanks for getting up early and coming here. I'm 13 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:19,790 really grateful for that. I'm Sebastian, this is Tamara, this is Andreas. And we 14 00:01:19,790 --> 00:01:25,452 are building a tool, a software tool for easy supply chain risk analysis. And I 15 00:01:25,452 --> 00:01:33,420 will start by talking about the background of all this, what kind of risks we analyze 16 00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:39,920 and why. Andreas will talk more about how we do the analysis and then Tamara will 17 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:47,929 talk about our Project Fairtronics. So the first thing I want to do is unpack this 18 00:01:47,929 --> 00:01:53,140 slogan a little bit. Supply chain is basically all the steps that happen to a 19 00:01:53,140 --> 00:01:58,499 product before it is a product, right. It starts with resource extraction and then 20 00:01:58,499 --> 00:02:02,860 somehow components are being made or assembled. And at the end you have maybe a 21 00:02:02,860 --> 00:02:11,390 mobile phone or an arduino or something like that. And when you're doing supply 22 00:02:11,390 --> 00:02:15,180 chain, when you work with supply chains, basically, you have to acknowledge that 23 00:02:15,180 --> 00:02:19,530 electronics production happens all around the globe. So that's a major thing that 24 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:28,410 makes it complicated. Risk in the sense of social risk. So what we want to do is 25 00:02:28,410 --> 00:02:33,330 minimize harm that is caused to people involved in the production of electronics 26 00:02:33,330 --> 00:02:39,770 devices. Analysis in the sense that we compute it. So we have a computational 27 00:02:39,770 --> 00:02:48,780 model of what kind of harms, risks are in the supply chain of a product. And the 28 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:56,230 whole thing is supposed to be easy and easy is meant in the sense that you do not 29 00:02:56,230 --> 00:03:02,790 need to collect extra data. If you are designing an electronic product the tool 30 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:15,900 should work only with the data you already have. As I said, supply chains are global, 31 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:19,940 making electronics products is a global affair. Basically, anything, any any 32 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:26,439 product you can think of would probably involve 45 continents such as this 33 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:32,320 smartphone here, which is a pretty typical case. It basically starts with resource 34 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:39,549 extraction at the blue green dots and resources or like, yeah, raw materials are 35 00:03:39,549 --> 00:03:43,650 located all around the globe. So they come from South America, North America, Africa, 36 00:03:43,650 --> 00:03:49,069 Asia and so on. And then processing and manufacturing happens in a lot of other 37 00:03:49,069 --> 00:03:53,319 places. So basically the material for any product is shipped around the globe like, 38 00:03:53,319 --> 00:04:05,090 like crazy. And the background of our work is essentially sustainability. You may 39 00:04:05,090 --> 00:04:10,330 have heard of this model of sustainability that just made up of three pillars, the 40 00:04:10,330 --> 00:04:19,790 social pillar, the environmental pillar and the economic pillar. And, you know, 41 00:04:19,790 --> 00:04:23,430 many people associate sustainability mainly with the environmental aspect, 42 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:27,830 making things ecological, not emitting too much CO2 and so on. And that sometimes 43 00:04:27,830 --> 00:04:32,000 leads to the social aspect of sustainability being a little bit 44 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:39,420 underrepresented. Social sustainability means avoiding harm, you know, improving 45 00:04:39,420 --> 00:04:45,710 people's well-being and so on. And that is exactly the aspect that is most important 46 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:52,420 to our work. So what about the social sustainability of electronic supply 47 00:04:52,420 --> 00:05:05,380 chains? Basically, you know, across all the stages of a supply chain, you can find 48 00:05:05,380 --> 00:05:12,750 a whole huge catalog of human rights violations and other problems that are 49 00:05:12,750 --> 00:05:17,350 associated with the making of electronics products from having to work in dangerous 50 00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:23,480 conditions, for instance, being poisoned by toxic chemicals or being harmed in, you 51 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:30,740 know, when the safety precautions are not not sufficient. Being forced to work, for 52 00:05:30,740 --> 00:05:35,610 instance, because people are in so much debt that they need to repay. Children 53 00:05:35,610 --> 00:05:43,500 having to work, people not being able to form unions. Having to work too many hours 54 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:49,240 or not making a living wage, even though people work, you know, 10 or 12 hours or 55 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:58,120 more a day. Being displaced from one's home. For instance, when mines are being 56 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,560 established or extended and it frequently happens that people that have been living 57 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:09,060 there are forced to move. From being discriminated against or not enjoying 58 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:15,870 Social Security, such as, you know, being able to take time off when you are sick. 59 00:06:15,870 --> 00:06:23,930 For instance, in gold mining, many of these cases are well documented, child 60 00:06:23,930 --> 00:06:33,660 labor happens in very, very many places. And also you may be aware that mercury is 61 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:39,300 frequently used to extract gold, when gold is being mined. And of course, mercury is 62 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:43,820 toxic and sometimes, you know, safety precautions are not taken and people get 63 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:48,580 poisoned and the environment gets poisoned. So these are just two simple 64 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:53,370 examples to make it a bit more plastic. And the big picture is that the 65 00:06:53,370 --> 00:06:59,230 digitalisation, which we enjoy and celebrate here at Congress happens on the 66 00:06:59,230 --> 00:07:06,379 backs of the people who make these electronics. So how can we fix that? I 67 00:07:06,379 --> 00:07:11,900 want to go through three example steps, you know, three puzzle pieces of the 68 00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:21,150 solution. The first one is that there do exist some certifications that rule out 69 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:26,740 certain human rights violations. For instance, you know, the fair trade lable 70 00:07:26,740 --> 00:07:32,940 from bananas or coffee or whatever. And there exists a fair trade certification 71 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:39,210 for gold. There also exists another certification, fair mind also for gold. 72 00:07:39,210 --> 00:07:46,250 And, yeah, these do rule out a good part of these human rights violations. There is 73 00:07:46,250 --> 00:07:51,990 another standard, Irma, which is in the process of being established, which 74 00:07:51,990 --> 00:08:01,430 applies to more metals or more materials that come from mining. But the problem 75 00:08:01,430 --> 00:08:05,940 with all these certifications is that they are not broadly available. So in each case 76 00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:12,440 there only exist a few mines that have a certification and most of the mines don't. 77 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,460 So another way to put this is that there does not seem to be a huge demand for 78 00:08:17,460 --> 00:08:23,360 certified metals at the moment. And I think that is like one of the things that 79 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:32,419 need to change. A second example is that when you are the designer of an electronic 80 00:08:32,419 --> 00:08:36,740 product, of course you get to decide what goes into that product and you make a lot 81 00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:44,210 of design decisions. And of course, these decisions determine what kind of raw 82 00:08:44,210 --> 00:08:48,550 materials are needed to build your product. So this is a fun little example. 83 00:08:48,550 --> 00:08:58,129 This is a DIY mobile phone. So this phone was built in a fab lab. And at the back of 84 00:08:58,129 --> 00:09:03,000 the phone, you see these two little knobs sticking out. And these little knobs are 85 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,959 capacitors. They are aluminium capacitors because the person who built this phone 86 00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:11,399 did not want to use tantalum capacitors because tantalum is well known to be 87 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:18,300 associated with the whole catalog of human rights problems. So, yeah, here you can 88 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,569 very clearly see this design tradeoff between making the phone a little bit 89 00:09:21,569 --> 00:09:38,370 thinner or avoiding the use of certain resources. Many metals can be recycled, 90 00:09:38,370 --> 00:09:43,790 not all metals do get recycled because it's not always cost effective. But of 91 00:09:43,790 --> 00:09:48,740 course, when it's being done and when it's possible, recycling is a good way to 92 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:57,600 reduce the overall amount of resources that are being extracted. Why is it not 93 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,240 always cost effective? I think this is, again, partly a matter of supply and 94 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,000 demand. You know, when there is a larger demand for recycled metals, I hope you 95 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:12,910 come cost effective to recycle a larger amount of them. So the general message is 96 00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:18,550 there do exist alternatives, but then the question is why, you know, why do I keep 97 00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:23,120 telling you there's no demand? Why is there no demand? Why do not all people, 98 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:31,339 you know, try to source their materials responsibly? And part of the answer is 99 00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:38,170 that electronic supply chains are very complex and very deep. 100 00:10:38,170 --> 00:10:43,966 This is a supply chain taken from the Naga I.T. project, a very nice product, 101 00:10:43,966 --> 00:10:53,006 which is also a pioneering project in fair electronics. And they tried to build 102 00:10:53,006 --> 00:11:00,004 the most sustainable computer mouse possible. So they took the mouse because 103 00:11:00,004 --> 00:11:05,505 it's a very simple product. And they tried to map out their entire supply chain 104 00:11:05,505 --> 00:11:09,326 as far as possible. And you can see that even for the simple product, basically, 105 00:11:09,326 --> 00:11:17,897 the supply chain chart is overwhelming. And you as a designer or as a maker of 106 00:11:17,897 --> 00:11:21,660 an electronic product, you are basically at the top of the supply chain and you 107 00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:25,200 kind of have to look backwards and see what your suppliers are and what are 108 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,620 their suppliers and so on. And with with this huge amount of steps, it's very 109 00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:36,330 difficult to know where to start. And this is where our tool comes in. 110 00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:40,190 And Andi will now tell you a bit more about how that works. 111 00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:50,710 Andreas: Okay, thank you. So, we have learned now that, there exist severe 112 00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:57,139 issues in the production of electronics devices, severe social issues. We want to 113 00:11:57,139 --> 00:12:04,660 do something about this. But we have also seen right now that it is not an easy 114 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:08,649 task, that it is complex, that supply chains for electronics products are 115 00:12:08,649 --> 00:12:19,360 complex and deep. And so the question is where can we start? And one thing that we 116 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:27,050 or that someone as a designer of electronics products does know is the 117 00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:32,129 components that go into an electronics products, for example, here, the computer 118 00:12:32,129 --> 00:12:37,989 mouse. You can see it's made from the casing. There's the cable. There's the 119 00:12:37,989 --> 00:12:46,029 circuit board. There are resistors that go into it and so this is one thing that we 120 00:12:46,029 --> 00:12:54,710 know. And so the idea for our tool is that you can feed this component list, maybe 121 00:12:54,710 --> 00:13:00,160 half a bill of materials available, maybe you can just disassemble a device, feed it 122 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:07,269 into our fairtronics tool and get a hotspot analysis that tells you where is 123 00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:12,889 the highest risk, where are the hotspots for social issues in your device? 124 00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:22,190 So how could this be done? And I will walk with you through some steps to make 125 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:29,330 this more tangible. Like I said, one component in our computer mouse is the 126 00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:41,189 resistor. And if we take the resistor, we can start collecting generic data, what 127 00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:47,620 the resistor is made of. There is some copper part of the resistor, there is some 128 00:13:47,620 --> 00:13:54,240 iron part of the resistor. And one example for a data source that you can see here is 129 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:03,900 from an environmental assessment of generic or average electronics components. 130 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:13,129 And what you can see here listed is the materials that an average resistor 131 00:14:13,129 --> 00:14:25,390 consists of in weight. For example, copper it is made of 61.71 % of copper or 12.49 % 132 00:14:25,390 --> 00:14:31,660 of iron in weight, an average resistor that we see here. OK. So now we know 133 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:39,290 something about the composition of one component and when we follow that trail 134 00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:45,899 and say, okay a large part of our of our component is copper, we can ask where does 135 00:14:45,899 --> 00:14:55,550 the copper come from? And here's another example of a data source that tells us 136 00:14:55,550 --> 00:15:01,149 something about this. It's from the US Geological Survey and they publish yearly 137 00:15:01,149 --> 00:15:07,880 estimates about the global production of different minerals. And you can see that 138 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:18,160 in 2018, Chile produced a 5.8 million tons of copper, or Congo produced 1.2 million 139 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:27,990 tons of copper in 2018. These are estimates based on publications from 140 00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:36,759 different firms or governments about their copper production. Okay. So we can assume 141 00:15:36,759 --> 00:15:46,110 a certain amount of the copper that flows into our component, into the resistor, 142 00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:53,969 comes from Congo. And now we can ask, how are the working conditions in Congo? Are 143 00:15:53,969 --> 00:16:00,129 people getting fair salary there? How long do they have to work? Is there child labor 144 00:16:00,129 --> 00:16:08,160 possibly involved? Is there forced labor possibly involved in Congo? And there you 145 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,339 can all find quite some data on this country level that tells you something 146 00:16:12,339 --> 00:16:16,379 about working conditions in different countries. And also our observation is 147 00:16:16,379 --> 00:16:21,579 that the situation is improving here. But the data quality that you get since 148 00:16:21,579 --> 00:16:27,939 especially since the U.N. sustainability goals were established, you can find more 149 00:16:27,939 --> 00:16:33,999 and more better quality data about social conditions, working conditions in 150 00:16:33,999 --> 00:16:38,699 different countries. And here's one example from the International Labor 151 00:16:38,699 --> 00:16:47,170 Organization. They also publish a report on estimates about, in this case, the work 152 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:53,990 and poverty rate. So the share of people that do work, that still live below the 153 00:16:53,990 --> 00:17:01,779 poverty line. And in this case we are interested in Congo and see, okay, this 154 00:17:01,779 --> 00:17:09,949 rate is 70%, 70% of the people in employment still don't have enough to 155 00:17:09,949 --> 00:17:18,000 live. And a huge part of our work is to collect this data, to collect data about 156 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,050 raw material composition of electronics components, to collect data about 157 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:28,010 production rates of these raw materials in different countries, and to collect data 158 00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:35,521 about the indicators that tell us something about the working conditions in 159 00:17:35,521 --> 00:17:42,560 these countries, bring them in a common format and collect them in our database. 160 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:48,640 And as soon as we have this data, we can start asking some questions and do some 161 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:55,130 basic computations. For example, we might be interested in the significance of 162 00:17:55,130 --> 00:18:01,910 copper produced in Congo. Well, when we say, okay, Congo's share in world 163 00:18:01,910 --> 00:18:09,920 production of copper is 5.81% and the share of copper in our resistor weight is 164 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:18,240 61.71%, we arrive at 3.58% and we could interpret this as something like medium 165 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:27,800 activity. So anything we can say, okay, around 3.58% of copper in our resistor we 166 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:34,720 can assume stems from Congo and well, it's between 1 and 10%, so quite significant, 167 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,170 it is medium activity, quite important for our resistor. Anything that is more than 168 00:18:41,170 --> 00:18:47,150 10% would be high activity. Anything below 1% would be low activity just to 169 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:54,070 qualify this a bit. And then how severe are the impacts in Congo if we take our 170 00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:59,300 example of fair salary? We have that example of working poverty rate of 70%, 171 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:07,620 which is among the top 25% of rates for all the countries that we have for this 172 00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:11,230 indicator. And this is just one qualification that you can make at this 173 00:19:11,230 --> 00:19:17,410 point and say, okay, anything that is, any rate that is among these top 25% of rates 174 00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:27,750 is high impact. And if we do this for our whole product, for the computer mouse, we 175 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:35,960 can actually see that copper is not only the most prevalent metal in the resistor, 176 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:43,490 but for the whole computer mouse, mainly due to the cable. So well, copper is quite 177 00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:49,590 prevalent in our computer mouse and we also identified a social hotspot from the 178 00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:55,501 data that we just had, that is the copper extraction in Congo and the impact 179 00:19:55,501 --> 00:20:02,670 category that we looked at is fair salary. And one interpretation from this analysis 180 00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:07,880 would be, okay, if we find a source of fair copper, of certified copper for the 181 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:14,750 cable or find some producer of cables that is willing to work with us in improving 182 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:21,090 the situation, that would be a big step forward for the fairness of the computer 183 00:20:21,090 --> 00:20:30,270 mouse. Now, there are some limitations from this approach that I would like to 184 00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:37,400 point you to. For one, it's an assessment on a very generic level. So you should 185 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:44,230 take this with a grain of salt. It's just to highlight hotspots, to highlight those 186 00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:49,880 areas where it's worth looking deeper and try to identify the real issues that lie 187 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:55,920 behind this. In the whole approach, we follow a methodology called Social 188 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:03,100 Lifecycle Assessment, which is similar to environmental assessments of products. So 189 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,920 you look at the whole supply chain or the whole lifecycle of a product and in an 190 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,440 environmental assessment, you are interested in the CO2 emissions or in the 191 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,910 water use that happens during the whole lifecycle. And in our case, we have just 192 00:21:17,910 --> 00:21:22,600 different impact categories. So the impact category is not water use or CO2 193 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,670 emissions, but direct social impacts and that these are the ones that we are 194 00:21:26,670 --> 00:21:31,540 focusing on. So anything related to workers, freedom of association, working 195 00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:36,180 hours, forced labor, health and safety, Social Security, equal opportunities, 196 00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:42,180 child labor and fair salary. And also, as you can see from the example, we are 197 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:48,760 focusing right now just on the raw material extraction phase and the future. 198 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,780 This should be extended also to cover other lifecycle phases to get to a full 199 00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:59,460 assessment, social assessment. Okay, now I will pass on to Tamara, who will tell you 200 00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:04,030 more about our project and the tool that we are developing. 201 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:15,610 Tamara: So thank you. Now that Sebastian already told you why we are working on 202 00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:19,590 this project and Andi you told you how we are doing this, I like to show you a bit 203 00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:25,160 of what we've done already. So we're building a web based analysis tool to 204 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:31,430 identify social hotspots. You can see a screenshot of the current work in progress 205 00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:38,640 of it. It should be, an MVP should be done by the end of February. And to revisit 206 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,300 that example for the computer mouse, here you can see that the component that you 207 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:48,690 should look at first is the data cable, and then that if you find a sustainably 208 00:22:48,690 --> 00:22:57,790 sourced or fair copper for your product, that would be a significant improvement. 209 00:22:57,790 --> 00:23:03,160 And now you maybe all wonder if that is really great and how can I contribute to 210 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,220 it? So first of all, to all the makers of electronic products. It would be great if 211 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:14,060 you let us know what kind of tools you currently use, in what formats you export. 212 00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:18,041 You could just send us your bill of material list or PCB layout so we can 213 00:23:18,041 --> 00:23:25,780 offer templates because we want it to be really easy to use. And the other thing is 214 00:23:25,780 --> 00:23:30,750 just use our tool by the end of February. Give us feedback. Tell us what 215 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:38,370 functionalities are working for you, whether or not. And another thing is we're 216 00:23:38,370 --> 00:23:43,840 an open source project, we'd love to collaborate. So if you have time on your 217 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:51,850 hands and you're motivated and or passionate for the subject, just join us. 218 00:23:51,850 --> 00:23:58,370 And you can find us on gitlab, here's the link. A very crucial matter is the 219 00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:06,600 procurement of data. Without data we cannot conduct an analysis and our current 220 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,090 database is rather tiny and a lot of manual labor went into it. And even though 221 00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:20,370 there have been significant improvements concerning open source data for social 222 00:24:20,370 --> 00:24:27,010 indicators it's still not in a standardised format to feed them into a 223 00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:33,470 coherent system quickly. And another thing is the raw materials that constitute 224 00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:38,120 components, there it's even harder to find something. So if you're in possession of 225 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:43,820 data, if you're probably a manufacturer and you have lists or if you just love to 226 00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:51,420 extract data in an automated way, yeah, let us know. And the last thing is talk 227 00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:59,001 about it. So even if you're not a maker yourself. Yeah, like spread the word, talk 228 00:24:59,001 --> 00:25:05,870 with people about it. And the more people know and think about it, hopefully, the 229 00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:15,100 more can be done and if it's at a bare minimum more conscience towards this 230 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:23,000 topic. And to wrap up this talk, I'd like to reiterate what Sebastian said in the 231 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,730 beginning. Currently in the production of electronic products, human rights are 232 00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:34,800 violated at almost every step of the supply chain and this must not be the 233 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,980 case. And this does not have to be the case, as he said earlier. There are 234 00:25:38,980 --> 00:25:45,030 alternatives. You can use certified raw materials, you can use, materials from 235 00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:50,840 certified mines. You can actively take working conditions into consideration in 236 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,830 the design process and you can use recycled material if possible. But most 237 00:25:57,830 --> 00:26:04,980 importantly, you can increase the demand for sustainably sourced raw materials and 238 00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:09,710 a fair production of electronic products. And here's also our contact information. 239 00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:13,630 So feel free to write us an email or you're here, we're here, you can come and 240 00:26:13,630 --> 00:26:20,510 talk to us. And I'd also like to thank the prototype fund at this point because they 241 00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:26,870 have been funding us so far. And that was a great help. Yes. Thank you. And thank 242 00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:29,370 you for your attention, your interest and your time. 243 00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:30,670 *Applause* 244 00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:41,700 Herald-Engel: Super! Thank you! Wow! You can be really proud about your product, 245 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:47,260 really. I wonder if there are questions here among our audience who is really 246 00:26:47,260 --> 00:27:00,120 clearly woken up and fresh. And to the point, ah here at number two. Yes, please! 247 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:06,380 Mic2: Is it on? Okay. Collecting data is a difficult task, as you just said. So I 248 00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:11,010 wanted to ask if you share it with other databases like Wikidata or another open 249 00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:16,590 data source, or if you like only keep it to yourself because it's too hard to 250 00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:21,580 actually connect to other data sources? Andreas: Well, technically, we're working 251 00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:29,170 on,... to have a REST interface for the data that we collect and we happily 252 00:27:29,170 --> 00:27:35,020 share it. For some we are not sure if we are allowed to share them. So if there is 253 00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:40,950 some expert here concerned property rights of databases, that would be great to talk 254 00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:46,570 about them. But we happily share the data that we can. And if you want to connect 255 00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:49,690 here, great! Mic2: Okay. Thank you. 256 00:27:49,690 --> 00:27:54,750 Herald-Engel: Here, Number one. Mic1: Thanks a lot for the presentation 257 00:27:54,750 --> 00:28:00,070 and I'll probably send you some bill of materials, too. I've got one question. I 258 00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:06,990 know that Fairlötet offers the Stannol soldering tin. But do you also plan to 259 00:28:06,990 --> 00:28:12,250 offer a solder paste? Because for all SMD assembly obviously it's not possible to 260 00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:21,450 use that Fairlötet product. Sebastian: Yeah, okay, so for context, 261 00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:26,600 basically that was our inaugural project at Fairlötet. We are an association that 262 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:34,290 works on fair electronics. And yeah, basically the first project we did was we 263 00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:39,980 got together with Stannol, which is a maker of soda products, and designed a 264 00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:50,440 soda wire. So what you would use when you have your soda...iron and...So I would 265 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:57,700 suggest that you get in contact with Stannol directly. Actually, we are not so 266 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:04,500 much involved in distributing this order anymore. 267 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:13,260 Herald-Engel: Number one, can you repeat the question, please? 268 00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:18,660 Mic1: So there is no product on the market at the moment what you can recommend for 269 00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:22,040 soldering paste? Sebastian: Stannol do have their own 270 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:31,370 product line they call Fairtin. So that is tin with a traceable origin, following 271 00:29:31,370 --> 00:29:35,890 best practices in mining. So that might be an option for you. 272 00:29:35,890 --> 00:29:40,010 Herald-Engel. Okay, we have a question at number two. 273 00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:47,320 Mic2: Thank you, you hear me? Thank you very much for your talk. I was wondering, 274 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:53,630 have you gotten in contact with purchasing organizations, because in supply chains 275 00:29:53,630 --> 00:30:01,960 nowadays you often have a service provider that is in between the producer who buys 276 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:15,030 these products and the vendors. And often these purchasing service providers are 277 00:30:15,030 --> 00:30:30,000 asked to help control the supply chain. Sebastian: We haven't actually and to be 278 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,270 honest, I think we need to start at the point where there's some kind of momentum 279 00:30:33,270 --> 00:30:38,360 and for us I think it's easier to reach people like you. You know, maybe hardware 280 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:46,740 developers or maybe small enterprises or maybe just activists because, I mean, I 281 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:51,110 cannot really make really broad statements, but I think big parts of the 282 00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:55,210 whole industry are kind of conservative when it comes to stuff like 283 00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:58,850 sustainability. And we kind of have to work our way through there, I think. 284 00:30:58,850 --> 00:31:06,370 Herald-Engel: Okay, we have a question. Number three there. One second. Yes, 285 00:31:06,370 --> 00:31:09,880 please. Number three. Mic3: First of all, thank you for your 286 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:17,700 talk, and my question is, you used a relative approach regarding the evaluation 287 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:21,870 of the impact category. And I was wondering if there was a specific reason 288 00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:30,360 for that or if, I mean, you could have instead just evaluated the absolute value 289 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,190 by which you compare the different countries of origin. 290 00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:39,610 Andreas: You mean to have some kind of reference point and say, okay, it's better 291 00:31:39,610 --> 00:31:44,870 or worse and than this reference point. The approach that I showed you right now 292 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:51,720 is our starting point where we are following some well, an approach that or 293 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,660 modeling after approach that we found in literature. And that seems doable for us 294 00:31:55,660 --> 00:32:01,200 right now within the six month timeframe that we have to arrive at a full 295 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,870 prototype. But it's not fixed. So certainly the whole methodology can still 296 00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:11,640 be improved. So, yeah, that's pretty much what I can say to that. 297 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,100 Mic3: Thank you. Herald-Engel: Fine. Thank you. Yes, sir, 298 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,560 please. Mic: Hello. My question also concerns the 299 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,580 relative impact approach that analyzes, for example with the mouse which 300 00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:31,060 countries and which materials from these countries had an impact. And I was also 301 00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:36,650 wondering if except for the country of origin and its world market share and also 302 00:32:36,650 --> 00:32:41,810 the share of weight in the product, as you showed with copper, if you're also taking 303 00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:48,720 into consideration other factors, for example, the rarity and different impacts 304 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,770 of materials, for example, copper being more common than tantalum, as you 305 00:32:54,770 --> 00:32:59,700 mentioned, and if you would consider adding that as an additional factor into 306 00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:05,710 your analysis. Andreas: Right now, we do not consider it. 307 00:33:05,710 --> 00:33:10,340 But one could certainly think about it. Maybe we can talk about later about this 308 00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:16,670 idea, would be great. Herald-Engel: It's fine. Do we have 309 00:33:16,670 --> 00:33:22,210 questions online? No one. We're all asleep. I see someone here at number two. 310 00:33:22,210 --> 00:33:24,900 Please Sir. Mic2: Hi there. I'm also a prototype fund 311 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,900 recipient. It's really, really cool to see them doing all this nice and this awesome 312 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:34,230 stuff. I am a happy fair phone owner. And I also have another non fair phone and the 313 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:38,480 fairphone was twice the price of the other one. And whenever I ask people or they ask 314 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,210 me, which one should I get? I say like, well do you wanna spend twice, that's 315 00:33:42,210 --> 00:33:46,420 where you have to get yourself into. In the fact that, in the face that we have 316 00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:50,340 this failure market wise, do you see any role for regulation to actually make it 317 00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:54,240 easier for people who build things like this to do the right thing? Because when 318 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,260 you speak to small businesses, the thing that I always have pushed back at me is 319 00:33:58,260 --> 00:34:02,570 that we cannot make them viable at these prices. So we're forced to use over the 320 00:34:02,570 --> 00:34:09,460 non fair parts in our electronics. Sebastian: So concerning regulations, 321 00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:13,780 yesterday I gave a lightning talk on the Lieferkettengesetz, right now there's a 322 00:34:13,780 --> 00:34:19,929 broad NGO campaign going on that is trying to establish mandatory human rights due 323 00:34:19,929 --> 00:34:26,060 diligence in Germany. But also there are initiatives in other countries such as 324 00:34:26,060 --> 00:34:30,669 Switzerland. France already has a supply chain law and so on. And there are also 325 00:34:30,669 --> 00:34:36,669 some processes on the EU and U.N. levels. So, I think that is,... I mean, but that 326 00:34:36,669 --> 00:34:40,619 is basically the bare minimum, right? I mean, not violating human rights should 327 00:34:40,619 --> 00:34:48,589 actually not be something great. It should be, you know, it should be something 328 00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:56,089 everyone does. Yeah. Herald-Engel: That's absolutely the point 329 00:34:56,089 --> 00:35:05,230 actually, in our lifestyle, western world hooked up to electronics and yeah, we 330 00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:12,329 can't live without it. But I had a question as well, if you...Ah there is 331 00:35:12,329 --> 00:35:15,730 another one. I have a question. But number three, please, you can. 332 00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:20,269 Mic: I have a question about the lack of data. You said you need more data and you 333 00:35:20,269 --> 00:35:26,619 asked for data sheets of parts. But I think you also need more data about metals 334 00:35:26,619 --> 00:35:34,519 or working conditions. Do you have the top three data what you would appreciate based 335 00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:40,599 on the metals or on the working conditions in countries, for example? Probably we can 336 00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:49,319 provide you with that. Andreas: Oh, it would be hard to tell 337 00:35:49,319 --> 00:35:54,490 something about the top three. It's just, well, right now we are at a state where we 338 00:35:54,490 --> 00:36:01,960 think, okay, on a very generic level, we can cover most of the minerals that are 339 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,829 relevant. We can cover most of the countries. But most of the indicators, for 340 00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:13,240 the indicators, there is still a lot of gaps. Well, maybe you can find an 341 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:17,200 indicator for child labor but it covers only 20 countries and not all of the 342 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:28,440 countries. So on this level, on a very generic level, we are quite complete. But 343 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:35,109 then a good next step, for example, would be to get data that is more specific to 344 00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:39,490 industries and not only on a country level. So that would be great. In general, 345 00:36:39,490 --> 00:36:42,869 it's just well, we need more of everything. 346 00:36:42,869 --> 00:36:47,730 Tamara: And also components and what raw materials they constitute. 347 00:36:47,730 --> 00:36:54,660 Andreas: So yeah, as Tamara just said, the component composition is the more severe 348 00:36:54,660 --> 00:36:57,259 lack that we have right now. Tamara: So the more generic it is, the 349 00:36:57,259 --> 00:37:03,990 less accurate it is. Herald-Engel: May I? I have a question as 350 00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:09,490 well. We still have a few minutes left. Did you mention how you're financed or 351 00:37:09,490 --> 00:37:13,730 backed or... did you do that? Tamara: I think I did. I'm not sure of 352 00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:18,680 it but there's also the logo. Herald-Engel: And this brings you til 353 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:25,349 which stage, meaning til the product is there or is there something in the future 354 00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:32,180 waiting? Tamara: Til the end of February this 355 00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:36,910 round, round it is called, is finished. So we want to have a minimal viable product 356 00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:43,740 type at that point. But I think all of us would be happy to see more of that in the 357 00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:46,640 future. Sebastian: Right, so basically the period 358 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:53,079 where we're being funded by prototype fund is almost over, it's until February. But 359 00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:57,980 Fairlötet will try to keep the project going as best as possible. So we're also 360 00:37:57,980 --> 00:38:02,099 trying to build a small developer community around it. And let's see what 361 00:38:02,099 --> 00:38:04,549 happens then. Herald-Engel: Yeah. And so spread the 362 00:38:04,549 --> 00:38:10,059 words, I would say, so that you have more data as well in your database before the 363 00:38:10,059 --> 00:38:16,401 end of February. So I would ask everyone to give a warm applause and remember, give 364 00:38:16,401 --> 00:38:21,210 them the data and they can bring it further. Thank you. Thank you guys for the 365 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:26,435 talk. Fantastic. Fairtronics.org, check it out! 366 00:38:26,435 --> 00:38:28,192 *Applause* 367 00:38:28,192 --> 00:38:30,310 *36c3 postroll music* 368 00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:35,274 Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2020. Join, and help us!