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If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/681 Thanks! 1 00:00:16,580 --> 00:00:18,769 As you all know, it's been three years 2 00:00:18,770 --> 00:00:21,379 of the CCC and the debate on technology 3 00:00:21,380 --> 00:00:24,019 and politics has held a special place. 4 00:00:24,020 --> 00:00:26,239 Our first talk today is called 5 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,309 the on psychiatric blic, 6 00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:30,409 and it will be quite meta as it 7 00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:32,059 will backtrack through the titles and 8 00:00:32,060 --> 00:00:34,309 abstracts from nineteen eighty four 9 00:00:34,310 --> 00:00:35,299 to today. 10 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:37,489 Analise apparent patterns and turning 11 00:00:37,490 --> 00:00:39,619 points in the subject. 12 00:00:39,620 --> 00:00:41,779 To do so we have Moxey Gus who 13 00:00:41,780 --> 00:00:42,679 has a Ph.D. 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,419 for Masters degrees and three bachelor 15 00:00:44,420 --> 00:00:45,469 degrees. 16 00:00:45,470 --> 00:00:46,470 His. 17 00:00:51,250 --> 00:00:53,019 He's currently conducting postdoctoral 18 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:55,419 research. He's interested in cybernetics, 19 00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:57,459 in the intellectual trajectory and 20 00:00:57,460 --> 00:00:59,289 everyday practices of the human and 21 00:00:59,290 --> 00:01:00,939 natural sciences. 22 00:01:00,940 --> 00:01:03,339 Joining him is Mel, who has a background 23 00:01:03,340 --> 00:01:05,139 in computer science, a Ph.D. 24 00:01:05,140 --> 00:01:07,209 in media studies, works in research in 25 00:01:07,210 --> 00:01:09,819 the intersection of technology, education 26 00:01:09,820 --> 00:01:12,039 and the international development. 27 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,999 A round of applause from Exodus and Mel, 28 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,000 thank you. 29 00:01:22,740 --> 00:01:25,019 So thank you for coming at this 30 00:01:25,020 --> 00:01:27,389 really early hour, and 31 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:29,729 this is the first 32 00:01:29,730 --> 00:01:31,799 results of a longer research 33 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,899 project that we 34 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,209 started in a couple of weeks 35 00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:37,799 ago and 36 00:01:39,390 --> 00:01:40,390 the. 37 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:45,619 The idea was to look at 38 00:01:45,620 --> 00:01:47,869 how the relationship of technology 39 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:50,239 and politics looks like 40 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,309 in the oil talks of 41 00:01:52,310 --> 00:01:54,349 the Congress. 42 00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:55,760 So this is a kind of 43 00:01:56,870 --> 00:01:58,729 talk about all the talks that have been 44 00:01:58,730 --> 00:01:59,779 before. 45 00:01:59,780 --> 00:02:02,869 And it's a kind of talk 46 00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:05,209 that will be about talks. 47 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,689 And why we were interested 48 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:10,520 in this question is, of course, 49 00:02:11,690 --> 00:02:14,569 because there is an ever growing debate 50 00:02:14,570 --> 00:02:17,239 inside the Congress 51 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,519 between the hard core techies 52 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,009 and between the technical activists. 53 00:02:22,010 --> 00:02:24,199 How much politics and what kind 54 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,659 of politics should be in the Congress? 55 00:02:26,660 --> 00:02:29,119 What is the interesting what a boring 56 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,499 technical content that should be 57 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:32,039 presented and so on. 58 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,989 At the same time, this is also a 59 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:38,389 classic social scientific 60 00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:40,849 question. In fact, there is a social 61 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:42,949 scientific discipline called science 62 00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:45,109 and technology studies that is 63 00:02:45,110 --> 00:02:47,269 mainly constructed around this 64 00:02:47,270 --> 00:02:49,789 question of the relationship between 65 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:52,039 technology, society and politics. 66 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,519 So what we did was 67 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,249 to go back from the beginning and 68 00:02:58,250 --> 00:03:00,829 read all the titles and the talks 69 00:03:00,830 --> 00:03:03,589 and categorize them and try to 70 00:03:03,590 --> 00:03:05,929 come up with some preliminary 71 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:07,939 results to show you. 72 00:03:07,940 --> 00:03:10,189 And in this journey 73 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:12,329 and we found that the first 74 00:03:12,330 --> 00:03:14,689 years were scarcely 75 00:03:14,690 --> 00:03:15,679 documented. 76 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,469 So we had to look at 77 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,859 various archives and we found some 78 00:03:21,860 --> 00:03:24,589 funny artifacts in the meantime. 79 00:03:24,590 --> 00:03:27,619 So we would like to share with you 80 00:03:27,620 --> 00:03:30,259 a video and 81 00:03:30,260 --> 00:03:32,389 some parts of a television 82 00:03:32,390 --> 00:03:35,659 report that was screened in 1986 83 00:03:35,660 --> 00:03:38,689 documenting the second Kiowas Congress. 84 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:40,639 This will be in German. 85 00:03:42,220 --> 00:03:43,330 Played and clear. 86 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,999 KAOS communications concurs Flintwood 87 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,319 Artie in Hamburg, 88 00:03:52,060 --> 00:03:53,639 the usual hacker party, 89 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:56,710 that stuff and field operations 90 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,600 for between. 91 00:04:06,530 --> 00:04:09,089 I entered comedically, that's fancy 92 00:04:09,090 --> 00:04:11,439 about the crazy feeling 93 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:12,349 of our pleasure. 94 00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:13,350 I know that Mark 95 00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:16,399 does shake Denise up, 96 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:19,540 but 97 00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:22,230 I've seen 98 00:04:23,610 --> 00:04:25,449 oh oh, 99 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:29,569 oh, come on, bottom shaft. 100 00:04:29,570 --> 00:04:31,880 Feingold, bad taste here. 101 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:34,699 Demand is depressed. 102 00:04:34,700 --> 00:04:35,819 Oh my 103 00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:38,610 God. 104 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:44,989 When he the telephone that woman for 105 00:04:44,990 --> 00:04:46,999 Valdete didn't in the beginning. 106 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,599 And that's on banking earth and out 107 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:50,689 not in the eyes of people 108 00:04:52,670 --> 00:04:53,670 who decided 109 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,440 to 110 00:05:02,420 --> 00:05:03,420 on 111 00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:09,139 the Huckabee. 112 00:05:09,140 --> 00:05:11,809 The goal is not to influence on. 113 00:05:11,810 --> 00:05:12,949 We put it to diminish. 114 00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:15,319 We can feel the doctors I can extend. 115 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,459 Hoby does futilities is an 116 00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:19,879 effort to focus within the 117 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,269 computer technology because 118 00:05:22,270 --> 00:05:23,590 it's she it's an 119 00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:27,469 and was and then 120 00:05:27,470 --> 00:05:28,470 esteemed influence 121 00:05:30,730 --> 00:05:32,819 the accent you of 122 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:34,999 the Huck Finn gunslinger 123 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,000 DC. 124 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,639 Yeah. I want to 125 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,339 talk about any computer and telephone 126 00:05:43,340 --> 00:05:46,369 ineffably nutrition data and an acoustic 127 00:05:46,370 --> 00:05:48,139 or a modem. 128 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:50,479 You can as a head start in its beginning 129 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,939 of a feeling that is a 20 year of 130 00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:55,489 deposits of bank and of course computer 131 00:05:55,490 --> 00:05:57,959 scene is not Togami sneaked into thinking 132 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,019 in ecosystem. Andrian, if you 133 00:06:00,020 --> 00:06:02,449 like, double schabir locked up in type 134 00:06:02,450 --> 00:06:02,789 you should. 135 00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:04,959 Since it came from the perspective 136 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:08,389 of Indonesia, Indonesia is indeed sealed 137 00:06:08,390 --> 00:06:09,390 as hackers 138 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,139 would pass filter. 139 00:06:12,140 --> 00:06:13,999 Isn't this Marcus Pasta Shatz. 140 00:06:15,460 --> 00:06:16,460 Oh, 141 00:06:19,250 --> 00:06:21,139 it's in Thailand. No cost conscious. 142 00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:23,239 And it got to be of 143 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,819 not to elevate to the states, 144 00:06:25,820 --> 00:06:27,589 not to add to an abundance 145 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:31,029 of other doright 146 00:06:33,590 --> 00:06:35,209 international finance. 147 00:06:35,210 --> 00:06:37,309 I was touch eskin on the antifa 148 00:06:37,310 --> 00:06:39,769 enough times in mentioning to us here, 149 00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:42,079 as all this happens, I was 150 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,329 asked initially 151 00:06:44,330 --> 00:06:46,309 and we couldn't eat food in fact, or six. 152 00:06:46,310 --> 00:06:48,469 Linden is an Pommier 153 00:06:48,470 --> 00:06:50,569 pretty dusty nationality or 154 00:06:50,570 --> 00:06:52,489 no against it. 155 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:54,719 Then I was into it in front 156 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,720 the title 157 00:06:57,700 --> 00:06:59,909 of the 158 00:06:59,910 --> 00:07:01,099 market. 159 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:03,319 We think that a 160 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,389 nationality today 161 00:07:05,390 --> 00:07:06,920 it's of no importance 162 00:07:08,290 --> 00:07:10,369 and we change so soon as 163 00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:13,019 it's most amount of time. 164 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:14,020 I would 165 00:07:16,410 --> 00:07:17,410 you 166 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,779 like to buy your video. 167 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:23,839 I said I'm not 168 00:07:25,490 --> 00:07:27,569 done. And if you don't mind, a 169 00:07:27,570 --> 00:07:28,570 young 170 00:07:30,650 --> 00:07:31,650 son or. 171 00:07:34,990 --> 00:07:35,990 So we ended. 172 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,189 So we saw a glimpse of Holland 173 00:07:46,190 --> 00:07:48,799 at the end, the one of the 174 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,539 founders of the club. 175 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:52,759 And so this is the word 176 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,799 cloud of all that I said, just to give 177 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,429 you an impression of the whole. 178 00:07:56,430 --> 00:07:58,789 And as you can see, most of the terms 179 00:07:58,790 --> 00:08:01,039 look like technical terms, but 180 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,319 then in the context 181 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,989 and they are often politicized 182 00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:08,149 in different ways than in 183 00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:10,489 the most typical way in which 184 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:12,799 these technical terms come into 185 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,989 a political way of talking is 186 00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:17,089 the nightmares that you see on the left. 187 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,869 And we were interested to see 188 00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:23,209 over the years how the 189 00:08:23,210 --> 00:08:25,279 topics and how the relationships 190 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,379 developed and what was the 191 00:08:27,380 --> 00:08:29,059 internal dynamics of the 192 00:08:30,410 --> 00:08:33,229 of the course 193 00:08:33,230 --> 00:08:35,538 universe and maybe 194 00:08:35,539 --> 00:08:37,668 also the European hacking 195 00:08:37,669 --> 00:08:38,899 scene. 196 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:41,209 But also we were interested how 197 00:08:41,210 --> 00:08:43,699 this internal dynamics was 198 00:08:43,700 --> 00:08:45,769 connected to larger social 199 00:08:45,770 --> 00:08:47,899 transformations, for example, if it 200 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:50,209 is possible to detect the fall 201 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:52,489 of the Berlin Wall 202 00:08:52,490 --> 00:08:54,730 in the Congress content. 203 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:01,999 So we chose just 204 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,669 one very obvious 205 00:09:04,670 --> 00:09:06,859 and prominent example 206 00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:09,049 for our first round of searching 207 00:09:09,050 --> 00:09:10,339 for keywords. 208 00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:12,439 And this was searching for the keyword 209 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:13,440 NSA. 210 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:16,909 And I don't know, you can probably not 211 00:09:16,910 --> 00:09:19,009 read the years, but it shows that it 212 00:09:19,010 --> 00:09:21,889 came up in 2004 and in 2005 213 00:09:21,890 --> 00:09:25,399 and then again only in 2013. 214 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,129 And from anecdotal evidence, 215 00:09:28,130 --> 00:09:30,259 I would have thought that it would have 216 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:32,359 been present also in the years before 217 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,549 there was this kind of told you so 218 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:35,779 mentality. 219 00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:37,819 And that I frequently heard people 220 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:38,809 talking about that. 221 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:41,359 We knew it all along and nobody listened, 222 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,909 at least from the Congress 223 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:45,379 talks and topics. 224 00:09:45,380 --> 00:09:47,479 This is not visible. 225 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,819 But as Maxygen already said, 226 00:09:49,820 --> 00:09:52,309 we're all also interested in 227 00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:54,589 talking to people that have attended 228 00:09:54,590 --> 00:09:56,869 previous talks and 229 00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:59,149 getting more data and more evidence. 230 00:09:59,150 --> 00:10:01,399 So maybe this was visible 231 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,739 in other areas, just not in the Congress 232 00:10:03,740 --> 00:10:04,759 presentations. 233 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:10,569 So where did we get the data before? 234 00:10:10,570 --> 00:10:13,059 Ninety two, it was the most difficult 235 00:10:13,060 --> 00:10:14,019 part. 236 00:10:14,020 --> 00:10:16,779 We tried first the Congress archive 237 00:10:16,780 --> 00:10:18,969 on the CCC website, but 238 00:10:18,970 --> 00:10:20,919 that was not available anymore. 239 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,439 So we were lucky enough, however, 240 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,239 to find the files still in the Web 241 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,240 archive. 242 00:10:27,490 --> 00:10:29,439 Another source was the Datin Slider 243 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,479 archive, which is unfortunately also 244 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:32,679 incomplete. 245 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,739 And there we found a few scanned PDF 246 00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:37,809 that we had to copy by hand. 247 00:10:37,810 --> 00:10:39,520 So just to give you an example, 248 00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:42,879 this is the data in Florida 249 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,519 from one that showed up from 84. 250 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,139 There was a more or less complete 251 00:10:47,140 --> 00:10:49,299 schedule from the first Congress. 252 00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:51,369 So that was that one was still easy 253 00:10:51,370 --> 00:10:52,370 enough to copy. 254 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,039 There were other ones. 255 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,519 Um, yeah. It also says bring your 256 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,929 picture. 257 00:11:01,930 --> 00:11:04,149 And there were other ones like this 258 00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:06,309 one from to one. 259 00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:08,769 It's already a bit harder to read, 260 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:10,809 but it was still possible. 261 00:11:10,810 --> 00:11:12,789 Of course, there's also no abstract, so 262 00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:14,919 it wasn't always easy to figure out what 263 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,109 the talks actually were about 264 00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:19,389 with us to talk about this aspect later. 265 00:11:19,390 --> 00:11:21,879 And then there were files like this one, 266 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,769 which is the review of the Congress. 267 00:11:23,770 --> 00:11:25,029 Nineteen ninety. 268 00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:27,309 We could not find any plan or any 269 00:11:27,310 --> 00:11:29,649 schedule. So what we did is 270 00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:31,959 actually read the file 271 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,119 and try to figure out, OK, is this 272 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,469 what people are talking about? 273 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:36,369 Is this a torg? 274 00:11:36,370 --> 00:11:38,379 Was it a workshop or was it just a topic 275 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:40,449 that came up and 276 00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:43,329 tried to compile 277 00:11:43,330 --> 00:11:45,819 a more or less accurate fire plan 278 00:11:45,820 --> 00:11:47,110 from this information? 279 00:11:55,510 --> 00:11:57,729 So after 1992, there 280 00:11:57,730 --> 00:12:00,069 was already something 281 00:12:00,070 --> 00:12:02,110 called the World Wide Web and 282 00:12:03,310 --> 00:12:05,409 the schedules of the Congress 283 00:12:05,410 --> 00:12:07,779 were usually published in a human 284 00:12:07,780 --> 00:12:10,239 readable form there so 285 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,629 we could write a scraper 286 00:12:13,630 --> 00:12:15,219 to get the talks. 287 00:12:15,220 --> 00:12:17,469 And of course, we used the proper 288 00:12:17,470 --> 00:12:19,659 library and no regular expressions 289 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:21,129 were harmed in the process. 290 00:12:23,890 --> 00:12:26,199 And the first ones are actually 291 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,289 just ASCII charts and they are with the 292 00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,029 tag inside the HTML. 293 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,969 After 2000, too, there 294 00:12:34,970 --> 00:12:37,849 are machine readable dumps of the program 295 00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:39,919 in the format and 296 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,369 at some point there is also SML, 297 00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:46,239 which is the most structured 298 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,679 dump that we could get, and 299 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,659 these ones have different problems than 300 00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:51,739 the previous ones. 301 00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:53,839 So they are 302 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,389 in various encodings 303 00:12:56,390 --> 00:12:59,689 and usually the full abstract 304 00:12:59,690 --> 00:13:02,299 or in some years at least a full abstract 305 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:03,589 was also missing. 306 00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:05,929 So this is, for example, 307 00:13:05,930 --> 00:13:08,389 some of the problems 308 00:13:08,390 --> 00:13:10,069 that we still have to clean up in the 309 00:13:10,070 --> 00:13:11,070 code base. 310 00:13:12,050 --> 00:13:13,050 Everything 311 00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:16,849 that we used, including 312 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:19,009 the code that generated the original 313 00:13:19,010 --> 00:13:21,679 dataset and also the categorized 314 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,779 datasets are available in this 315 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:25,019 repository. 316 00:13:25,020 --> 00:13:27,349 And we have this 317 00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:29,659 plan to migrate it into 318 00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:31,759 maybe open science framework 319 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,009 or a similar website, which is 320 00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:36,169 for open science projects 321 00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:38,329 specifically, which is not just 322 00:13:38,330 --> 00:13:39,379 a repository. 323 00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:46,329 So as we said, 324 00:13:46,330 --> 00:13:47,920 of course, we try to 325 00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:51,159 discern which 326 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,409 talk should be considered 327 00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:55,809 a technological talk and which 328 00:13:55,810 --> 00:13:57,789 each talk should be considered political 329 00:13:57,790 --> 00:14:00,219 talk, and we had to 330 00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:02,169 introduce some other categories to deal 331 00:14:02,170 --> 00:14:05,289 with the more controversial 332 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:06,290 abstract. 333 00:14:07,770 --> 00:14:10,199 So all in all, we looked at two thousand 334 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,449 three hundred and seven talks there 335 00:14:12,450 --> 00:14:14,849 in a coma, separated values fail 336 00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:17,429 and we asked three humans 337 00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:18,719 to categorize. 338 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,059 And here we would like to 339 00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:23,159 thank Fumiko, who helped 340 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,289 us to go through all 341 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:26,189 these talks. 342 00:14:26,190 --> 00:14:28,269 And of course, Mel and me 343 00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:30,629 were also reading them. 344 00:14:30,630 --> 00:14:32,909 And we didn't use the categories that 345 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:35,459 are used in the conference. 346 00:14:35,460 --> 00:14:37,739 Trex also because the different 347 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:39,989 categories of the conference tracks 348 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:42,149 were changing over the years, 349 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:44,639 but also because these categories 350 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,769 don't necessarily reflect the 351 00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:48,720 research questions that we wanted to ask. 352 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,179 So, of course, the 353 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:56,220 most hotly debated part of this 354 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:00,449 will be how we discern technology from 355 00:15:00,450 --> 00:15:01,739 politics. 356 00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:03,720 In short, we can say that, um, 357 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:06,210 we just, um, 358 00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:09,089 we just assumed that everything that 359 00:15:09,090 --> 00:15:10,829 comes into the Congress has something to 360 00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:12,029 do with technology. 361 00:15:12,030 --> 00:15:14,459 So what we were looking for is a, 362 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:17,069 um, a social impact where 363 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:18,779 it is not just about, for example, the 364 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:21,599 technicalities of a certain legislation, 365 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,279 but it's also discussed how this 366 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,739 legislation is shaping society 367 00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:27,899 or whichever social group is is good 368 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:28,900 for or bad for. 369 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,929 So what difficulties did we have, 370 00:15:34,930 --> 00:15:36,219 of course, as mentioned before, there 371 00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:37,809 were a couple of talks where we had no 372 00:15:37,810 --> 00:15:39,939 abstracts and we take them 373 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:41,949 as undefined. For example, there was one 374 00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:44,979 talk called Edge C++. 375 00:15:44,980 --> 00:15:46,789 We don't know what this was about. 376 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:48,999 We have our speculations, but 377 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,769 we cannot definitely say whether it was 378 00:15:50,770 --> 00:15:52,029 technical or political. 379 00:15:54,070 --> 00:15:56,469 There were a few non talks 380 00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:58,959 like the Hecate Jeopardy radio broadcast 381 00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:59,829 theater deejay's. 382 00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:02,049 That's music films that 383 00:16:02,050 --> 00:16:05,109 we also excluded from the, uh, 384 00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:07,839 from from the text versus politics 385 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,969 tagging and attack them as 386 00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:10,899 non talks. 387 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:13,209 And then there were controversial talks 388 00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:15,039 or just to show that and the 389 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,749 differentiation between technical and 390 00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:18,909 political here at the Congress is 391 00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:20,229 not always so easy. 392 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:22,629 So one talk, for example, called 393 00:16:22,630 --> 00:16:23,739 object to software. 394 00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:25,120 The coming revolution 395 00:16:26,410 --> 00:16:28,569 sounds quite or rather technical, 396 00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:30,759 but in the abstract it shows that it's 397 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,119 actually dealing with changing, 398 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,459 changing the world or changing 399 00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:39,039 the way things are made, 400 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,559 influencing how everyone 401 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,629 can access technology. 402 00:16:43,630 --> 00:16:45,579 So this is certainly a social or 403 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:47,679 political stance that 404 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,680 this has. 405 00:16:49,330 --> 00:16:51,579 So we have a couple of preliminary 406 00:16:51,580 --> 00:16:53,829 results. Preliminary because they're only 407 00:16:53,830 --> 00:16:56,029 based on the tagging of one data 408 00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:57,189 set. 409 00:16:57,190 --> 00:16:59,319 And as we said, we hope to find 410 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,419 to find more people for the tagging, but 411 00:17:01,420 --> 00:17:03,850 also to join the data sets together. 412 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,680 So there are consistencies 413 00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:11,828 which mean which we found out 414 00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:14,469 is and there almost 415 00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:16,539 are it's about 50/50 416 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,669 that the Congress is about tech and 417 00:17:18,670 --> 00:17:21,129 politics, a slightly 418 00:17:21,130 --> 00:17:22,899 more technical talks. 419 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:24,879 As I said, from this first dataset of 420 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,219 tagging, it looks a bit more technical, 421 00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:29,140 but it's almost 50/50. 422 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,249 Then there were certain inconsistencies, 423 00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:36,099 for example, in 2007, 424 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:38,439 you can see that the number of talks 425 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,319 goes down in two thousand 426 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,809 here and this was not a change of venue. 427 00:17:43,810 --> 00:17:45,939 And it's also not obvious 428 00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:47,469 from the number of attendance. 429 00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:49,119 So we don't really know where this came 430 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,519 from. If any of you has an idea. 431 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:52,520 Please let us know. 432 00:17:53,770 --> 00:17:55,689 Also, you can see on this one, this is 433 00:17:55,690 --> 00:17:57,969 all talks over the years, 434 00:17:57,970 --> 00:18:00,039 87 and 88, for example. 435 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,589 We could not find any information 436 00:18:02,590 --> 00:18:05,349 at all. No reviews, no plan. 437 00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:07,599 I think only the announcement 438 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,600 of the Congress. 439 00:18:11,710 --> 00:18:14,469 And then there's some potential findings 440 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:16,479 or things that we could read from the 441 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,679 data. 442 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,809 One is that more participants, that does 443 00:18:19,810 --> 00:18:21,140 not mean more talks. 444 00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:24,639 Another one is for 445 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,829 where we could see that the data actually 446 00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:28,959 shows. What's also written in reviews 447 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,329 is in 89 and the data in Florida, 448 00:18:31,330 --> 00:18:33,789 it says that for the first time 449 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,739 there was less technical talks than 450 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:37,809 political or social ones. 451 00:18:37,810 --> 00:18:40,059 And this is also shown 452 00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:41,060 in the data 453 00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:44,979 here. You can see this is the first time 454 00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:47,499 that politics is taking over technology. 455 00:18:48,670 --> 00:18:50,589 Yeah, this is the overall graph. 456 00:18:50,590 --> 00:18:52,839 And then, as we said, there might 457 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,939 be adaptations to this one when we 458 00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:56,529 match the tagged files. 459 00:18:56,530 --> 00:18:58,599 But it looks like for a while 460 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,209 politics was much stronger. 461 00:19:01,210 --> 00:19:03,069 Technically, technical talks were much 462 00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:05,859 stronger. And at the moment, politics 463 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:07,959 seems to catch up. 464 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,679 So which one is which side? 465 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,879 The blue one is the technical 466 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,189 technical talks and the green one is 467 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:16,450 the politics. 468 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:26,369 So how we want to 469 00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:27,370 go and 470 00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:31,010 with this idea is a. 471 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,139 And is asking you 472 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:38,599 to help us 473 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,879 also maybe to improve the 474 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,249 code or to 475 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:46,039 volunteer to categorize the dogs, 476 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,289 you can send food 477 00:19:48,290 --> 00:19:51,019 requests of just a few dogs 478 00:19:51,020 --> 00:19:53,119 or you can debate what is already 479 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,699 there, or you can sit down and 480 00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:58,099 spend, I guess, around 12 hours 481 00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:00,169 to go through 482 00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:02,509 every talk and 483 00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:04,879 add your opinion to the 484 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:05,989 pool. 485 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:08,569 You can also for can repurpose 486 00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:11,149 the code and the database. 487 00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:13,159 So, for example, it would be quite nice 488 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,839 to do something like this with the Hope 489 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,449 conference and 490 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:19,429 in the United States, which is supposed 491 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:21,919 to be one of the more political 492 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,499 Hekker conferences in North America. 493 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,599 And I wonder how these things are 494 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,879 playing out over there. 495 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,099 And we 496 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,199 also want to 497 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,479 talk to people to try to find 498 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,779 out some of the archives that I mentioned 499 00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:41,029 in different documents that we were 500 00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:42,289 looking at. 501 00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:44,479 So apparently at some point there was 502 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,089 an official Congress paper published 503 00:20:47,090 --> 00:20:49,099 during the conference. 504 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:52,189 And in 1989, 505 00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:54,079 there is also mentions of an electronic 506 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,599 newspaper that was circulated 507 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,699 and in various places, for example, in 508 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:01,159 the certifiers detention order, 509 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,529 we also saw references 510 00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:06,169 to a legendary Calusa archive. 511 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:07,909 And the question is, if the council 512 00:21:07,910 --> 00:21:10,069 archive is lost, it's possible to 513 00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:11,420 find and 514 00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:15,259 to discuss these questions 515 00:21:15,260 --> 00:21:17,599 and to continue 516 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,729 and and, 517 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:21,919 uh, talk in 518 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,109 a more relaxed setting. 519 00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:26,509 The registered discussion 520 00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:28,999 in the data room tomorrow 521 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,139 at four o'clock. 522 00:21:30,140 --> 00:21:32,239 So if you want to share with us 523 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,419 some stories from the early Congresses 524 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:37,729 or, uh, your opinions about 525 00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:39,529 technology and politics at the Congress, 526 00:21:39,530 --> 00:21:41,479 please come and talk to us there. 527 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,559 And as I said, 528 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,659 we have to see how does 529 00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:50,579 that assess that we have to relate to 530 00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:51,869 each other and 531 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,839 then if we can have her three different 532 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,879 opinions about each talk, then we can 533 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,190 have a less subjective 534 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,999 dataset to work with. 535 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,369 And we also have to 536 00:22:05,370 --> 00:22:07,289 get information from the years that are 537 00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:09,479 missing. And, of course, 538 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,009 clean up quite a bit. 539 00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:14,129 But this 540 00:22:14,130 --> 00:22:16,349 stupid idea of 541 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:18,149 dividing the talks into technology and 542 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:20,639 politics is just a first 543 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,039 step. One of the initial 544 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,709 approaches to this problem, 545 00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:28,079 we actually want to spend 546 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,509 most of the time of the research project 547 00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:32,699 with qualitative data. 548 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,979 So talking to people, making 549 00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:37,829 interviews, focus groups and so on, 550 00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:40,019 and how we want to use 551 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:42,419 this statistical evidence 552 00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:44,489 is basically just to have a 553 00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:46,619 consistent starting point 554 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:48,569 for discussions. 555 00:22:48,570 --> 00:22:50,639 And if we do this, 556 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,289 then we can also start to ask more 557 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:54,269 interesting questions. 558 00:22:54,270 --> 00:22:56,639 For example, how does the 559 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,309 ideas about politics 560 00:22:59,310 --> 00:23:01,499 depend on the ideas about 561 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,479 technology that are circulated inside the 562 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,699 Congress or 563 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:07,679 how these two categories are actually 564 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,319 defining each other? 565 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,899 And thank you very much. 566 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,039 You can see our contacts here and 567 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,369 the slides are also online, so 568 00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:21,439 you can download them if you want. 569 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,929 And as we are well on time, maybe 570 00:23:23,930 --> 00:23:26,059 we can just ask 571 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:28,369 one question to the audience 572 00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:30,529 who has attended the Congress and 573 00:23:30,530 --> 00:23:31,530 the 80s. 574 00:23:33,810 --> 00:23:35,969 So there are a couple of people, so we 575 00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:38,039 really hope some of you 576 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,199 are joining our workshop because 577 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,439 we are really very interested in hearing 578 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,489 about those days. 579 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:46,559 We found, as we said, very 580 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,839 little written evidence from those 581 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,840 years. 582 00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:52,910 Thank you. Oh, by round of applause. 583 00:24:01,110 --> 00:24:03,299 We have a few minutes for questions, 584 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:05,399 so please step up to the microphones 585 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,529 if anybody has anything to ask 586 00:24:07,530 --> 00:24:09,449 or add. Yes, microphone, please. 587 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:10,619 Yeah. Thank you for you. 588 00:24:10,620 --> 00:24:11,789 Thank you. Very dark and very 589 00:24:11,790 --> 00:24:14,009 interesting. So my question is, you 590 00:24:14,010 --> 00:24:15,599 said you don't want to use those 591 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,699 grassroot categories 592 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:19,829 that the Congress itself uses 593 00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:21,030 for categorizing talks. 594 00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:24,119 That's that's fine. 595 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:25,589 But but I still would be interested in 596 00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:28,049 knowing how have these grassroot 597 00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:29,759 categories changed over the years? 598 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,319 Have you any observations on that? 599 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:34,739 Well, no, 600 00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:37,889 we didn't look at this specific question. 601 00:24:37,890 --> 00:24:40,559 What I can say about this 602 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,629 is maybe that there was a 603 00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:44,759 lot of technical talks which 604 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,559 actually ended up, for example, 605 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,139 criticizing society or proposing 606 00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:51,269 a campaign or 607 00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:53,399 pointing out conflict between social 608 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,400 groups. 609 00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:57,389 And, of course, for example, 610 00:24:57,390 --> 00:24:59,429 if a talk is about, uh, firmware 611 00:24:59,430 --> 00:25:01,529 security, then it will automatically go 612 00:25:01,530 --> 00:25:03,879 into the technical section. 613 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,029 Um, but at the same 614 00:25:06,030 --> 00:25:08,219 time, we found the talks that were 615 00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:10,859 in the political track 616 00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:12,809 that were just explaining, for example, 617 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:15,269 what are the current laws that regulate, 618 00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:17,399 um, independent security 619 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,529 research. And, uh, as long 620 00:25:19,530 --> 00:25:21,899 as they were just, uh, an overview 621 00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:24,569 of the actual legislation in place 622 00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:26,789 without any normative opinions 623 00:25:26,790 --> 00:25:28,949 or without any reflection 624 00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:31,529 on what does it mean, um, 625 00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:33,689 for, uh, um, in terms 626 00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:36,659 of freedom or, uh, let's say privacy, 627 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,149 uh, for the larger population, we 628 00:25:39,150 --> 00:25:41,279 just categorize them as technical 629 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,029 talks. 630 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:43,030 Yeah. Thank you. 631 00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:46,679 Thank you. What about microphone three, I 632 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,379 switched Richard German sort of 633 00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,839 statistic, it's certain Spitalfields 634 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,269 vitalism from being inside 635 00:25:53,270 --> 00:25:55,609 our workshops as far predictable 636 00:25:55,610 --> 00:25:57,799 to the outside. Mark P, please, 637 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:58,999 of your home. 638 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,939 You can run your workshops on Arcega. 639 00:26:01,940 --> 00:26:03,680 Thank you. This ticket info. 640 00:26:09,620 --> 00:26:11,329 Are there any other questions, anybody 641 00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:12,589 else? 642 00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:14,030 Thank you very much.