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So thank you very much.
That so many people.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like
to listen to our talk about
automobile as massive data gathering
soars and the consequences for
individual and privacy.
We this are
go honey and Jimmy
Schulz, the president of
the Association
for Net Politics.
Yeah, well, how often
do you sign
privacy terms on the Internet?
If you sign up to a new service, buy
something on the Internet, you always
have to acknowledge, accept
privacy terms.
But did you ever do that
driving a car, renting a car,
using car sharing
models?
I've never heard of that.
But
always there is a lot
of data gathered in a car.
The CEO of VW,
Mr. Winterkorn, said
your car's data are
mine.
So what the hell is
your car to you as cars data,
what he is talking about and
who controls the data
of whom he is saying
this data is mine.
This was the starting point for us
to think a little bit more about
this issue.
And we will show you a few
slides today where we want
to have a short look into
the control systems and interfaces
of your car, where we
will present you some stakeholders
around the car.
Then do we have, again, a data
retention issue?
And last but not least,
is there any hope or
its.
Um,
yeah. Is there any help?
OK, first of all, your car does
have a data interface.
Most of the modern cars built after
2000 to have an OBD
to interface where you can read
data collected by your car.
The technical units and standards are the
DCU Engine Control Unit, the OBD
to onboard diagnostic
standard, to the Canvas Controlled
Area Network and for example,
onboard navigation, all data
being measurable by sensors and
actuators in
reality, length and structure.
And for example, threshold's
depending on the size of the memory of
the car.
Simple data, for example, the speed
fuel level GPS coordinates,
acceleration and
r.p.m. the rounds per minute of the motor
of the engine.
But adductor data could be, for example,
fuel consumption, the average
pace. And for example,
if you have connected it to an
navigational system speeding because
the navigation system knows where you
are. No, if you are within a city
limits and you drive more than, for
example, in Germany, 50 kilometers an
hour, of course you are speeding.
And most and most of the roads
have a data which is can
be collected in a car, for example.
The information, if you have it,
call the system, which will be
implemented in the next couple of years,
and new cars, dash cams,
parking cams and others.
And there's no ownership on the
data.
Who owns that data
and where it might be ownership by
database structures, but it's not
regulated. Who owns the data yet?
There might be attacks on that data,
for example, you can connect
the OBD to interface by
cable connection, for example, your
garage will do so.
The Automobile Association will
do so. If I helped, you would connect
via cable to your interface to the
car and read out the car information
and data.
You also you can do
that only if you have physical access to
the interior of the car.
But there are other interfaces which can
be connected to the OBD to interface,
which are wireless, for example,
Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, and which
can be easily accessed by everyone
being in the surrounding of your car.
I do have a, for example, on OBD to
interface in my car, which is not
encrypted because it doesn't offer any
encryption.
So everyone within the range of
a couple of meters of my car can read the
complete data of my car, which
is easy to hack, of course.
So let us have a look, which is the
stakeholders of your cars, and this is
an incomplete example, and this
example is even not complete because
we have no trucks in it.
We have no farming machines.
All these systems are gathering
data and sending data about
you.
Let's take the first example.
We have issues
of ownership and driver.
When you are in the family and you are
one person or you are one person,
then it might be easy.
You are the owner of a car or you might
be the owner of the car and you might be
the driver of the car.
And then you have the full control.
But even if you give your car
to your partner
who's driving with the car, who
has to get the information
about the last,
um.
Right.
Uh, done by the car.
So, um, there could be
some discrepancies.
Could be interesting.
OK, if you have a smartphone, we
know we can also find where you were
and where you are.
But even with the car, this is possible.
Now the next
interest is
here.
OK, the next stakeholder
who is interested in the car is the
leasing company, um,
most company cars are leased
and and a lot of private
cars, at least if you are driving
to a car dealer with your
private car and you want to buy a new car
to lease a new car and you prefer
a full service leasing,
and you are coming up coming
to the dealer with loud
machine, loud engine
zuway home, and
then you might know
the price you have to pay for
the leasing rate will increase because
the way how you drive has a deep
impact about
the costs for the cars and
the costs of the maintenance and so on.
Therefore,
the lease company is
very interested in how you are driving
the car.
The next stakeholder could
be the government, that stakeholders
could be the governmental stakeholder.
For example, if you use your private car
for some business trips and you want to
get some kickbacks right back,
so you have to plot and to write
down in a small booklet
where you were and,
uh, how long you stay there,
what and what are the kilometers and so
on. This could also be done
by the car and the Tax Office
is interested in and especially
its interested in that is done
automatically.
So next one,
it's a German specialty
that some part of the wages
are paid by a business
car, which you can use
for, uh, for private
reasons also.
So therefore you have the same issue
with tax office and
private usage as before.
Private usage is plotted, it's not
plotted to data the data for the
business. Use is plotted
or there are there
are other services done
with the car, for example, fleet cars.
If you are a technician and,
um, you have
to drive to a customer and
you have no own car, you take a fleet car
or out of a pool of cars.
And if you are, for example,
um, somebody
of an airline who has to travel
home, they have also fleet cars,
which can be used frequently
with some mixture between a cost
sharing and a rental car from it.
From the then there are other
stakeholders, car sharing and car
rental.
Um, several years ago,
um,
there was a message in a German newspaper
about a car rental company
in the US which,
uh, asked for special
payments, that I asked the driver for
special payments because he was too
fast, because he
has signed a document
that he has to keep the speed limit.
And in Germany, there were some
news about this in the newspapers.
Um, Car-sharing,
um, if you have a car
to go and so on, the cars
has to be picked up at the end
and to be transported, uh,
to a place where it could be rented again
or where you can find it.
So the car will give the information
about the place where the car
is at the moment and also the level
of the fuel in the, uh,
in the car.
Then we have
the assistance systems.
Brand Garras I would take these points
later on, but we also have
to police,
um, for example, you have
an accident.
Um, will your
car be a witness against
you and saying the police
and your counterpart in the accident
may be that you work too fast,
or do you have
a chance to say, no, I'm not
accepting that my car gets the data to
the police?
Or if we think about the
equal, uh,
which data are sent
to the cultural center,
uh, OK, it's clear
that there's a minimal sentence
data sentence.
There are positioning
information and also a
call would try to build up,
uh, to check whether there
are people injured or whether it was
only a small small accident or something
else.
But, um, so
control center could be interested
to estimate the damage.
Hospital could also be interested
maybe by the sensors,
uh, of the, um,
um.
For of protection systems, they are
knowing whether this heat, whether
it has somebody on the seat or not,
and then you have maybe an accident where
you can see that the car
was badly broken and four
places were seated, then it's an
information from the hospital.
So they could be interesting.
Last but not least with the data,
the police is collecting,
the court, the lawyer
or even the lawyer of the other
of your partner in the accident
could be interested in what was a real
accident.
We have
the situation or if you are talking
about witness, you know, and even
if you were in an accident, you know,
five minutes later, you see the
accident in a different ways as 10
hours later is one week
later and so on.
And this is not because
you are you want to
shift or to change the past,
but it's because you remember
in a different way.
And therefore people think that the data
and the car are more correct than you
are and they trust more in the data of
the car, whether that's true
or not.
So then we have surveyors,
um, which want to
check when there was an accident,
whether something was before,
whether this damage is really the damage
of this accident and not the accident
before. And last but not least,
the insurance company was
to adjust the claims
of an accident, for example, on
the other hand.
Hmm.
Insurance companies are also interested,
uh, not, uh, to,
uh, not
that accidents are not happening too
often.
And therefore,
they have, uh, they are interested in
that. People are, uh,
driving in the way that they are not
creating risks.
So therefore they are offering no,
uh, systems
where you have to pay less if you
drive in the, um,
in the less risky way,
you know, there is a stick you can put on
the bus of a firm, I think,
uh, generally.
And, uh,
and you are the way of your driving
is analyzed then.
And, uh, if you
and the insurance is
then less OK,
then let's come to the next slide.
Yeah. Well, um,
well insurance companies are of course
interested in the state mileage, for
example, to evaluate
the price of your insurance.
But other stakeholders we already
mentioned CEO Volkswagen, Mr.
Winterkorn, and he earlier
this year said we
don't accept that the data of our
customers trickle somewhere else.
And he also said this data
belongs to us, as you already heard.
So the VA, the German
Association of Automobile
Manufacturers,
released some principles a month
ago about how to deal with
this data.
They differentiate between
car related data, for example, mileage,
which is important, of course, for
maintenance reasons and
technical reasons, personal
data, relay related data, for
example, address and
which should be under the control of the
driver, for example, the usage
and the gas usage, for
example.
And the third is
assistance and for assistance and
infotainment data, which must
be erasable because while
who is interested in what music did you
hear? The car manufacturers are not.
So these are the principles and
the differentiation about the
free kinds of data which is collected
in our car.
Um, OK.
So and we were thinking there is
one stakeholder saying the data on
mine, the data is mine
and there are other stakeholders, as
we have presented before.
And we said, OK, let's
have a try and let's
ask them what they think
about who belongs to
whom belongs. The data we have
sent, we have requested forty
one companies
and
stakeholders, also associations.
And when you see we got after the
second time we have asked, we've got a
feedback of seventeen.
They have answered. OK, if I would ask
you, it's private people.
I have a feedback, let me say, of two
three. Four percent, this
organization, they have normally CRM
systems and so on, therefore
the feedback is not really
high. And when I'm looking on
the answers, at the end we had
seven answers where there was
some content in it.
Some answers were often the way
that they said, for example,
an insurance company, uh,
we are thinking about and we will
communicate our ideas
by our own.
Others are saying, oh, the
questions are going too deep into
our company policy, and
therefore, uh,
we will not tell you something.
This was a car rental company
having been paid more than 50000
euro in 2012 by
plotting, uh, high
value car sales
and, um, from other companies
that were no answer.
No on an email.
Not answering is also a statement,
isn't it?
And some were writing.
This is not a discussion.
We are not quite sure.
And so on.
There are only a few answering more
precisely from the few which
were answering more precisely
are the one.
This is the Assistant and Automobile
Association's little
bit to show. What is the business
if you drive with a car and the car
is breaking down, when you are driving
somewhere, you have
to issue a challenge.
And
normally, therefore you are.
You are a member of AT&T.
Uh, I
am in fall or other road
systems companies.
And what, uh, are these companies
doing that try to mobilize you,
that you can travel again, the
optimal solution that you could that you
can drive again with your own car.
So what
are they doing?
They are doing small repairs on
the road.
Or if this is not possible,
they are transporting your car
to the garage or to a
garage.
And, uh, sometimes if
the
repair is
too big,
then they are offering you, uh,
for a replacement vehicle.
So in the past, it was easy.
You can put on the new wheel.
You could change some parts of the
engine.
But now you need something more.
You need car related data
from the engine.
Uh, you need maybe
some as you need the main functions
of the systems.
You have to change something.
You need data how to change
some parameters in the engine.
And if you have to have the right
to access, uh,
this data to change this data data.
And therefore, they are asking
the car manufacturer
for open interfaces explicitly,
if they are not getting those interfaces,
then they are coming.
They say, OK, this is a Ford.
This isn't BMW.
This is the time that this is the VW.
We have no access rights.
We can offer you a replacement car
and we bring your car to your car,
to the garage.
And this is not a nice business is a
little bit expensive.
Therefore, the System and
Automobile Association companies are
asking for open enterprises interfaces.
Maybe it's not so
difficult or so worse
because mobility warranties
from some car suppliers
are managed by, um,
assistance company
together with car rental companies.
But sometimes it could be
more heavy. It's not in business for
Eterno.
So this was one business type
and the other was answered as
a garage and car dealers.
What is the business of a garage and
car dealer?
The business is to repair cars,
to maintain cars and to manage the
warranties.
Um, therefore the
activities are the same.
And what do they need?
They need car related.
They turn they need the male functions.
They need also some personal data,
for example, whether your your
your warranty is still
valid and so on, or your warranty
is, uh, covering
the mileage and so on,
and then need also the
access rights to change the data.
So and there are two groups
of car dealer
and garage, one are
linked to the brands
and the others are not linked to the
brands and.
If they don't get
an interoperable, standardized,
secure and open access platform,
the come to the garage is
not related
to the car.
Manufacturers have a problem
in doing their business.
In the past, um,
it was also not every time
very easy.
For example, I was when I was young,
I was driving of the new Antonino.
I had a problem with the brackets
and for the brackets you need special,
um.
Special parts to handle this
and for this special parts, there
is an industry delivering
oral garage.
This is part, but
this is quite a little bit different if
you have if
you have only electronic.
A special part, let me say it, and
those words or
for another example, if you, uh,
if there is no electricity in your car,
you have to restart and the security
environment in your car,
you need some data belonging to the key
environment, which,
um.
Garage can get KeyData
of VW, of your Audi, or
maybe of your dimler.
Is there every country
in Europe or in the world of the same
level to get those data?
That's a question.
OK.
So after
hearing that, are we facing
a new dawn of data
retention within the car,
we have to answer a couple of questions.
What data is stored, car related
data, for example, mileage malfunctions,
speed, etc.,
personal related data, location
times and dates
and even more personal data.
For example, your phone calls, if
you connect your phone or have a built in
cell phone in the car, the address book,
if you send it with your smartphone,
for example, that
music titles you listen to.
Have you ever entered?
Have you ever rented a car, a
modern car and just looked into
the bought computer and OK,
you know, from the navigation system,
which destinations
the user before that
drove to?
That's one thing. But most of
the people use, for example, on rental
cars or in car sharing cars,
the built in a phone,
Sinclair phone books.
You see who they called.
You see the addresses if you
if you haven't erased the data
afterwards.
So and who
else has access to the data,
for example, another user of your car
or for a rental car, unless you control
the data, everyone has access.
Who has access to the car, to your car
you used your garage has access
to the data, the car
manufacturer, the Automobile
Association, if I help you,
mobile devices and
all apps and you carry around
with you and especially
a specific car apps, for
example, many offers a special
app for iPhone, for example.
They can control all
the data within the car
and exchange and sync data.
If you don't erase it on the car,
who has access to that car
and who has access
to the data that is gathered
by your smartphone?
The manufacturer, Google, Microsoft,
Apple.
And another interesting question is,
where is the data stored
and the car with unknown
duration and structure?
And there is a tendency because
memory gets cheaper and cheaper, that and
more services for better problem solving
are coming to the market.
That more and precise data
for longer duration is stored within your
car, the computer
centers of your car manufacturer car
store that correlated data service
related data, person related data,
and also here the tendency to
use cloud services always on services
and more services covering
call lifecycle.
And also the same here, more
and more precise data and longer duration
of storage.
Your garage, the little store,
car related data, service related data
and personal related data,
and here the tendency
to use cloud services, AlwaysOn
services and more services
covering driver lifecycle, a driving
life cycles and more precise
data and longer duration of
storage of the data and
forth and the computer centers
of the companies like Google, Microsoft,
Apple, by using your smartphone connected
to your car.
And here is the tendency to have
a big data relation.
And that's even more worrying
that they collect these
data, more precise data and
use that to relate those collected
data.
But nothing is without awareness,
and you are showing me that the awareness
is coming up.
It's really important for us to discuss
what is happening there and what
has to be done. Also, from the political
point of view.
Awareness is one point, which
is very important, and it shows that the
room is more than overcrowded, but
there is a lot of awareness here in the
room, but we have to get it outside.
What we think is even
also very important is that all the
interfaces your car uses
are open standards
and interfaces.
So you are able to control
which data is
while get a get out of your
car and you also have
access to the data yourself.
You are in control of the interfaces and
therefore they have to be open.
So and the other thing is we think
that a car is something like a part
of your home and therefore all
data should be encrypted starting
in the car and you should have the key
of opening the data
to somebody else or to keep it closed.
Another important thing is transparency.
You should know where the data
is stored, what data is stored, how long
it's stored and who has access to it.
And even more important is you
shouldn't gather this information.
Transparency, information from all the
different sources.
There should be one single point of
information where you can
look where what is happening
to my data from my car.
And last but not least,
we need a data, a privacy
declaration and simple speech that
everybody who's able to drive a car
is also able to understand
what she or he is signing
that wet well, something we should have
and other places, too.
OK, thank you very much.
Thanks.
We hope you had fun and.
Thank you very much.
Before we take 10 minutes of Q&A,
there is a small
there is a small crowd management
issue here of the Q&A.
May I ask you to leave the
room through this entrance
down here? Not up there, because other
people are waiting already.
So please leave
through this door.
You're not through this door.
And
before starting
and the first ones
to leave, please, all the people sitting
in the aisles.
And remember, we will have ten minutes of
Q&A.
So those of you who are interested,
just stay here and line up behind the
microphones.
Oh, but now we let
the people leave who perhaps need to
go for the next course on
just a two minute break.
Thank you.
So.
It's fighting to free Lutzes.
Thank you very much for your patience.
The people who are leaving now on the way
to the next talk and we have
10 minutes of Q&A, just
give them two or three minutes.
That's.
If anything, it was.
But this
interview by Deloitte.
I'm a
sophomore at Zynga is open microphone
kind of.
Yeah, I get your
team.
We are
showing him how much happier
he gets this.
Should we start with some questions from
the left while people leaving the room?
Uh, could the door angels
please tell the people waiting outside
that we will be having maximum
10 minutes of Q&A and then the
entrance starts?
I know, I know, I know the schedule
is a little bit flexible.
It is.
And may I ask the people lining up
for Q&A,
ask a short question and expect
short answers.
We have only a maximum
and absolute maximum of 10 minutes, OK?
OK, let's start question one,
OK?
Is it on the line?
OK, I've got two
brief questions.
First one, to speak up loud and eat the
microphone.
Eat the microphone.
OK, the first one is,
um, as far as I know,
the whole functionality of
the two is only available.
Why are wired
connection?
How
good is the functionality of,
um, Bluetooth or Wi-Fi connection?
And secondly, um,
how easy or
is it possible with standard
OBD diagnostic tools
for a service technician to manipulate
these data in the car?
Thank you.
Hmm.
OK, the interface for OBD
two can be wired, can
be wireless Wi-Fi or Bluetooth.
Um, of course service technicians
must be able to alter the data
in the car, for example, to erase our
codes after having
while
repaired the car.
So of course you have to be able
to alter the data.
And of course, you might have heard about
that, that round about
30 percent of all used cars
sold in Europe have
not the exact mileage they had.
Well, they really have.
So, of course, there are means to
alter the data.
A question to
you question this
on, for example, electric cars and Nissan
Leaf. They do ask you
whether you want to send data to
their son.
However, if you don't
accept it, it will not go
to Navigator.
I think it's still since
the point of
where you are, where you are parking the
car because the Nissan system is sending
email if you have unlocked the car in.
The other thing is that many Nissan
Leaf owners have are using
a little toothpaste
or the speed reader, mostly
because they're using an application
called Leaf Spy, which is logging
all the data locations
and whatever.
So a pretty good idea that you can
get just about anything out of those
cars which have this Naldo
ODP reader blocked in when
when when the owner
leaves, it leaves the car parked.
Well, that was the question.
I'm just curious.
I'm just curious. Have you looked at the
Nissan Leaf on all this new accounts?
Because they they actually are quite
verbose, especially the look
like this law. I think that's a
pretty open.
Now, can we have the
next and last question.
I know one more
and then we have to stop solely in order
not to completely sabotage our
schedule.
OK, short question, with regard
to the organization load, is there any
kind of collaboration with,
uh, automotive makers, OEMs,
uh, suppliers and so on,
if we are connected with any
car manufacturers in any way?
No, we're not a political
organization.
NGO is not an interest or
not even that there is an interest
making liberal Internet politics.
That's the motivation.
We have the.
OK, thank you very, very much.