0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/533 Thanks! 1 00:00:10,020 --> 00:00:12,149 By the way, yeah, Fatto Fox works 2 00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:15,059 on a ETG classification, 3 00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:17,909 which is that thing way they measure the 4 00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:19,739 like the electricity in 5 00:00:21,140 --> 00:00:23,369 how what's the proper definition of it, 6 00:00:23,370 --> 00:00:24,839 by the way? They do something, something 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,909 with with electricity that 8 00:00:26,910 --> 00:00:28,859 is going on in your brain. 9 00:00:28,860 --> 00:00:30,929 And yeah, 10 00:00:30,930 --> 00:00:32,999 he's into neurofeedback research 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,819 and there's software for noninvasive 12 00:00:35,820 --> 00:00:37,929 computer vision based wildlife 13 00:00:37,930 --> 00:00:39,899 identification, which is a very cool 14 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:41,249 thing, I believe. 15 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,349 Yeah. This was your biography in a couple 16 00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:45,149 of sentences made very, very badly. 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,520 Anyway. Yeah, so. 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,529 Oh, hello. 19 00:00:55,530 --> 00:00:57,829 Oh, perfect. OK, yeah, so 20 00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:59,689 please give him a big round of applause 21 00:00:59,690 --> 00:01:00,690 for his. 22 00:01:09,950 --> 00:01:11,180 Yeah, thank you. 23 00:01:12,290 --> 00:01:13,430 Thank you for joining the session. 24 00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:17,089 Yeah, I put some 25 00:01:17,090 --> 00:01:18,559 crappy description of what I'm actually 26 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,659 doing. So the wife thing is actually a 27 00:01:20,660 --> 00:01:21,660 separate project. 28 00:01:22,940 --> 00:01:25,449 So what I'm basically doing, A, 29 00:01:25,450 --> 00:01:27,409 B, C, I research and. 30 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,289 Yeah, and so this is what I actually want 31 00:01:30,290 --> 00:01:32,569 to talk about because recently I felt 32 00:01:32,570 --> 00:01:34,729 like I was waking up in 33 00:01:34,730 --> 00:01:36,229 the future. I mean, because we have all 34 00:01:36,230 --> 00:01:39,379 this new technology right now happening 35 00:01:39,380 --> 00:01:42,139 like rejuvenating cells. 36 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:44,239 What is of open 37 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,399 open like driving cars, self-driving 38 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,979 cars, everything, just 39 00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:50,569 like it's tangible almost. 40 00:01:50,570 --> 00:01:53,149 And so now we have 41 00:01:53,150 --> 00:01:56,119 brain computer interfaces and 42 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,819 also made available and 43 00:01:58,820 --> 00:02:00,239 to the point where you can say it becomes 44 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:01,699 reliable, actually. 45 00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:02,899 And yeah. 46 00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:04,369 So but of course, always with new 47 00:02:04,370 --> 00:02:06,769 technology, there might be some people 48 00:02:06,770 --> 00:02:08,329 who want to misuse it. 49 00:02:08,330 --> 00:02:11,069 And so that's a great responsibility 50 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:11,989 coming. 51 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:14,719 And so I know this place here, 52 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,599 I find probably the most progressive 53 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,399 people around technology. 54 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,559 And that's why I want to 55 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,779 share this update, actually update 56 00:02:23,780 --> 00:02:25,909 on the progress that 57 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:28,189 we did already last year with 58 00:02:28,190 --> 00:02:30,709 Mittermeier and Massager and. 59 00:02:30,710 --> 00:02:32,089 Yeah. All right. 60 00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:33,090 So let's get started. 61 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,039 So, yeah, this is basically where 62 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,040 we want to head. 63 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:41,119 OK, so what? 64 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,249 Yeah, I know a lot of people probably 65 00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:45,409 know something about our know maybe 66 00:02:45,410 --> 00:02:47,569 a lot about PCI, but I have to be 67 00:02:47,570 --> 00:02:49,219 fair and just give a little introduction 68 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:50,220 first. 69 00:02:50,810 --> 00:02:52,369 So for the people don't know. 70 00:02:52,370 --> 00:02:54,719 And yet 71 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,659 then I will talk of course about the 72 00:02:57,740 --> 00:03:00,739 things that actually 73 00:03:00,740 --> 00:03:01,759 are going to be relevant 74 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,389 and also give a view of the 75 00:03:05,390 --> 00:03:07,099 consumer devices that are currently 76 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:08,629 available and all the open source 77 00:03:09,770 --> 00:03:11,419 approaches right now. 78 00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:14,209 And OK, so 79 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:15,619 here we go there with me. 80 00:03:15,620 --> 00:03:17,469 This is just the basics right now. 81 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:19,819 I try to keep it short. 82 00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:21,059 So what is edgy? 83 00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:22,839 Edgy is basically it's 84 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,079 electroencephalography. 85 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,209 You have this you have 86 00:03:26,210 --> 00:03:28,519 this beautiful plot 87 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,709 here. The this is actually 88 00:03:30,710 --> 00:03:31,999 what we can measure on the surface of the 89 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,099 head. And that's what 90 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:36,319 Hansberger and the 20s found 91 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,179 out you can do with humans. 92 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:40,399 So he put electrodes and somebody 93 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,229 is closing the eyes and then he opens it 94 00:03:42,230 --> 00:03:44,179 and you have a totally different pattern 95 00:03:44,180 --> 00:03:46,369 of brainwaves. And 96 00:03:46,370 --> 00:03:48,469 so, yes, a noninvasive brain 97 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:50,929 imaging method. And it's probably, 98 00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:52,069 yeah, one of the 99 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:54,830 best known sort of say and. 100 00:03:56,170 --> 00:03:58,239 OK. And so, yeah, this is like maybe 101 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,319 a typical. 102 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,969 So you have like Electra's 103 00:04:03,970 --> 00:04:05,919 and you place them in a certain, uh, 104 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,049 certain areas that correlate of cost 105 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:10,719 to brain activity and, uh, different 106 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,009 areas of the brain. 107 00:04:12,010 --> 00:04:14,110 And then you get this signal. 108 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,398 And so basically it's 109 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:20,828 you can interpret it as how many times 110 00:04:20,829 --> 00:04:22,899 a second, uh, does a wave go up and 111 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:25,029 down? And then you can do 112 00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:25,939 an analysis on this. 113 00:04:25,940 --> 00:04:27,279 You have the frequency analysis, for 114 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:29,589 instance. That's something that's 115 00:04:29,590 --> 00:04:31,989 been done quite often, actually. 116 00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:32,990 Um. 117 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:36,789 And so what else can you 118 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:38,979 do? You can do the unmixed the signal 119 00:04:38,980 --> 00:04:41,949 and then you, for instance, have you can 120 00:04:41,950 --> 00:04:43,329 determine the arousal state like. 121 00:04:43,330 --> 00:04:44,949 So how awake are you? 122 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:47,319 Are you almost falling asleep 123 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,029 or did you just have, like, a bunch of 124 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:50,030 coffee and. 125 00:04:50,950 --> 00:04:53,589 Yeah. Like this kind of scale, you can 126 00:04:53,590 --> 00:04:55,179 we can see here, this is the typical 127 00:04:55,180 --> 00:04:56,469 scale. 128 00:04:56,470 --> 00:04:57,789 Of course, there's lots of different 129 00:04:57,790 --> 00:05:00,639 activity of 130 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,109 and. 131 00:05:02,110 --> 00:05:03,909 Yeah. So basically we can do so much more 132 00:05:03,910 --> 00:05:04,910 actually with this 133 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,229 combination, also with machine learning 134 00:05:08,230 --> 00:05:10,869 of course. And so 135 00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:13,089 but let's just have a slight 136 00:05:14,290 --> 00:05:16,419 definition here, just so 137 00:05:16,420 --> 00:05:18,489 you can see, like the basic 138 00:05:18,490 --> 00:05:19,490 difference of 139 00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:22,389 how we can operate actually a brain 140 00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:23,860 computer interface. So like this is. 141 00:05:33,780 --> 00:05:34,780 Ha! 142 00:05:42,910 --> 00:05:45,129 So this was the end of it, no 143 00:05:45,130 --> 00:05:46,130 joke, yeah. 144 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:51,759 Hello. 145 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,789 OK. All right, perfect. 146 00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:57,249 So, yeah, OK, so like three 147 00:05:57,250 --> 00:05:59,559 basic, what a 148 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,029 way to differentiate. 149 00:06:01,030 --> 00:06:02,109 We have a. 150 00:06:02,110 --> 00:06:04,239 a. uh uh, brain computer 151 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,369 interface where you, for instance, 152 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:08,509 think about your left or right hand and 153 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:10,419 of course, need some training. 154 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:12,579 And then, uh, uh, yes, you can 155 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:14,669 directly control the device. 156 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:16,209 I thought that's one approach. 157 00:06:16,210 --> 00:06:18,429 Then you have reactive we show circle 158 00:06:18,430 --> 00:06:20,589 stimulus. That means so 159 00:06:20,590 --> 00:06:23,139 you show something like maybe, uh, 160 00:06:23,140 --> 00:06:25,389 um, something visual or something 161 00:06:25,390 --> 00:06:27,579 auditory and, uh, you have a certain 162 00:06:27,580 --> 00:06:29,709 reaction and then 163 00:06:29,710 --> 00:06:30,659 also a passive one. 164 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:32,019 Those are the ones that you probably 165 00:06:32,020 --> 00:06:34,419 won't notice, much less kind of 166 00:06:34,420 --> 00:06:36,889 tweaking your user experience. 167 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:39,249 Um, and so you probably won't even notice 168 00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:40,659 them. And uh, yeah. 169 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:43,539 So this like a very basic, uh, 170 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:44,899 very basic, um. 171 00:06:47,110 --> 00:06:49,479 Circuitry of brain computer interfaces 172 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,579 where you have the user and then you have 173 00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:53,649 the electrodes, we do amplification. 174 00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:55,419 I mean, this is a very simplified 175 00:06:56,980 --> 00:06:59,259 approach right now than the filter any 176 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:01,329 converter. And then we send it to 177 00:07:01,330 --> 00:07:03,609 a software, we do some preprocessing 178 00:07:03,610 --> 00:07:05,709 because, of course, we also have a lot of 179 00:07:05,710 --> 00:07:06,749 noise in the data. 180 00:07:07,750 --> 00:07:09,849 Then we really looked for the data 181 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:11,769 that we can use the feature extraction 182 00:07:11,770 --> 00:07:13,689 and then we have some machine learning 183 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:14,709 algorithms that can 184 00:07:15,820 --> 00:07:17,289 run a command based on the 185 00:07:17,290 --> 00:07:18,519 interpretation. 186 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,589 And so. 187 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,389 Yeah, so as I said, so 188 00:07:25,390 --> 00:07:27,309 it really depends on where I put the 189 00:07:27,310 --> 00:07:28,899 electrodes and there are so many 190 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:30,309 possibilities actually here and this is 191 00:07:30,310 --> 00:07:31,370 only a crude map, of course. 192 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,469 So, for instance, 193 00:07:35,470 --> 00:07:36,639 spending computers, something 194 00:07:37,750 --> 00:07:39,519 very nice, I think. 195 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,499 So you just see maybe a screen with all 196 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:42,579 the with the alphabet. 197 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:44,739 And so the letter you're thinking 198 00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:47,529 of, maybe the line is then highlighted 199 00:07:47,530 --> 00:07:49,699 and so we can measure 200 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:51,759 actually this is then the 201 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,619 letter you're thinking of is actually the 202 00:07:53,620 --> 00:07:56,109 target stimulus here in this 203 00:07:56,110 --> 00:07:57,069 P300 scheme. 204 00:07:57,070 --> 00:07:59,259 And then this is like 205 00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:00,639 a different reaction. 206 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,309 We can really measure this to 207 00:08:03,310 --> 00:08:05,999 anything else, like anything that's not 208 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,269 the letter right now thinking of. 209 00:08:08,380 --> 00:08:09,399 And of course. Yes. 210 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,109 So maybe it's already part of the videos 211 00:08:11,110 --> 00:08:13,269 where people are can 212 00:08:13,270 --> 00:08:14,950 actually control by thoughts, 213 00:08:16,030 --> 00:08:17,769 exoskeletons and prosthetics 214 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:20,570 and. 215 00:08:21,620 --> 00:08:23,689 Yeah, so and next, something that's 216 00:08:23,690 --> 00:08:25,929 also now very popular for 217 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:29,629 the commercial consumer 218 00:08:29,630 --> 00:08:32,629 product system and neurofeedback. 219 00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:34,729 And so what is basically 220 00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:36,829 is you can learn, you 221 00:08:36,830 --> 00:08:39,079 can really train your brainwave 222 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,189 activity. 223 00:08:40,190 --> 00:08:42,469 And and 224 00:08:42,470 --> 00:08:44,659 so the way it works is you we 225 00:08:44,660 --> 00:08:46,609 constantly measure actually your the 226 00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:48,829 brainwave data. Then we do the processing 227 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:51,349 and we have an interpretation. 228 00:08:51,350 --> 00:08:53,479 Is this going nearer to the 229 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,639 state of wellbeing you want 230 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,589 to be? Maybe then we give up in this 231 00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:58,969 moment, we give a reward. 232 00:08:58,970 --> 00:09:01,279 So of this, 233 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,299 the reward is a sound. 234 00:09:02,300 --> 00:09:03,979 And then you say like, oh, OK, that was 235 00:09:03,980 --> 00:09:05,209 the sound. 236 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:07,339 This is great. And if your brain tries to 237 00:09:07,340 --> 00:09:09,469 reproduce the sound, so in the same 238 00:09:09,470 --> 00:09:10,489 time you're changing your brainwave 239 00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:12,639 activity and 240 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,669 your breath, some simple example 241 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:17,119 examples, the more maybe for clinical and 242 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,009 medical use, of course. 243 00:09:19,010 --> 00:09:20,719 But yeah. 244 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,769 So that's the Hecky thing. 245 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:23,719 Of course, you don't have to be sick to 246 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,939 use neurofeedback. You can still optimize 247 00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:27,830 your brain wave activity and. 248 00:09:29,090 --> 00:09:31,219 Yeah, so in the not so far, this is 249 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:33,589 the nice thing, it's easier 250 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:36,079 than ever to make an interactive 251 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,389 installation where 252 00:09:38,390 --> 00:09:40,519 you can have an audio visual 253 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,009 feedback, maybe 254 00:09:43,010 --> 00:09:43,909 you can design it. 255 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:46,069 It's just the nuances of your arousal 256 00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:48,679 state and also maybe in combination 257 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:50,929 with somebody you're doing it together 258 00:09:50,930 --> 00:09:52,999 with. So it's a whole new 259 00:09:54,050 --> 00:09:55,850 it's a new experience, something new 260 00:09:57,170 --> 00:09:59,089 that you can really feel. 261 00:09:59,090 --> 00:10:01,219 So I tried. So we did I did a 262 00:10:01,220 --> 00:10:03,799 similar setup 263 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,439 at a festival 264 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,149 and it was quite interesting with two 265 00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:10,219 people. And I 266 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:12,439 can really say it's something special. 267 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,600 And yeah, for some. 268 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,409 Sorry, really worth trying. 269 00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:21,109 And so then Eurogamer. 270 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:23,509 So this is basically the gamification of 271 00:10:23,510 --> 00:10:24,799 neurofeedback. 272 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,869 So also there was the second 273 00:10:26,870 --> 00:10:28,399 conference and you were gaming already in 274 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,719 San Francisco this year. 275 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,399 Um, OK. 276 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,789 And then there's this new approach, 277 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:37,009 not so new approach, but now new approach 278 00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:39,409 and consumer the consumer 279 00:10:39,410 --> 00:10:41,509 landscape is to combine 280 00:10:41,510 --> 00:10:44,299 EEG or to use TC's 281 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:45,979 transcranial direct current stimulation 282 00:10:45,980 --> 00:10:48,379 or transcranial 283 00:10:48,380 --> 00:10:50,629 alternating current stimulation, 284 00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:52,909 which is basically 285 00:10:52,910 --> 00:10:54,349 zapping your brain. 286 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:56,269 The problem is there's not much 287 00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,509 there's no long term study so 288 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:01,249 far. I mean, people say it's nice. 289 00:11:01,250 --> 00:11:03,379 Say, wow, I feel 290 00:11:03,380 --> 00:11:05,479 like I drank a bunch of coffees and I'm 291 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,070 so active. OK, but 292 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,319 I don't know. 293 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,269 Can you can you do with something that 294 00:11:11,270 --> 00:11:13,429 less is not so sure. 295 00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:16,759 So there are some scientists who 296 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,859 say, yeah, you can 297 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:20,419 try it out, but you should be careful 298 00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:22,309 definitely what you're doing, you should 299 00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:23,310 be knowing what you're doing. 300 00:11:25,010 --> 00:11:27,769 OK, so maybe just give a quick overview 301 00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:29,329 of the methods. 302 00:11:29,330 --> 00:11:30,239 This is not all of them. 303 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,419 This is just the ones I find 304 00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:34,789 interesting. Here is the P300. 305 00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:37,099 That was the one where you respond 306 00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:39,230 to a, uh, to a certain 307 00:11:40,430 --> 00:11:42,499 stimulus, the target stimulus and the 308 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:44,329 spare computer, for instance. 309 00:11:44,330 --> 00:11:46,309 And there's no learning involved really. 310 00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:48,829 Then we at the steady state visually, 311 00:11:48,830 --> 00:11:51,079 visually evoked potentials. 312 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,769 This is where you can, for instance, have 313 00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:55,699 a blinking light and a certain frequency 314 00:11:55,700 --> 00:11:57,859 and you will have 315 00:11:57,860 --> 00:11:59,689 you can actually read this in the 316 00:11:59,690 --> 00:12:01,879 hospital. So your visual cortex 317 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,159 would have a certain response to this. 318 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,649 And so this is also maybe an 319 00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:07,789 example of a reactive 320 00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:11,539 BCI. Then we have potentials. 321 00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,120 Some are motor imagery. 322 00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:18,319 This is, again, the active one. 323 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,450 And yeah, this is. 324 00:12:21,770 --> 00:12:24,099 Yeah, also quite a 325 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:26,539 good one, um, so, 326 00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:28,809 OK, let's 327 00:12:28,810 --> 00:12:30,799 let's just have a quick look at the 328 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,019 consumer devices right now. 329 00:12:33,020 --> 00:12:35,209 And first, 330 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:36,799 OK, we should clarify, what are we 331 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,719 looking for? What what would be the 332 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,839 criteria to say this is a good device. 333 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,049 This is bad device? 334 00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:44,179 Um, so I just sort of a 335 00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:46,249 few points, of course, depending on what 336 00:12:46,250 --> 00:12:47,959 you want to do, they might be different. 337 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,029 Um, so but of course the first thing 338 00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:51,199 is cost. 339 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,329 I mean, so maybe don't want to 340 00:12:53,330 --> 00:12:55,519 waste fifty thousand dollars 341 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,739 and then say oh wow. OK, um I 342 00:12:57,740 --> 00:12:59,299 can control, make a robot go in the 343 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,160 circle and the other one and 344 00:13:02,180 --> 00:13:03,180 fifty thousand dollars. 345 00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:06,679 So OK, maybe a little 346 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:08,779 less. And uh but 347 00:13:08,780 --> 00:13:09,709 what's really important is the 348 00:13:09,710 --> 00:13:11,479 specificity and the reliability. 349 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,580 So you don't want to buy some stuff in 350 00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:16,219 and see. 351 00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:18,349 Oh it's just a 352 00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:19,489 it's not, it's in the data. 353 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:21,049 So like I mean you should ask yourself is 354 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:22,549 really brain wave coming out of this 355 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:24,679 thing? Um, so I'm not 356 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,839 going to point the finger at any 357 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,219 commercial product right now because I 358 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:29,599 only have ten. 359 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,669 But so like, um, 360 00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:34,519 it's really it's really 361 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,449 something you want to look at. 362 00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:36,439 It's really essential thing. 363 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,659 You want to have clear data, 364 00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:40,759 a clean data and. 365 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,889 OK, so the next thing is the hardware and 366 00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:45,019 software degrees of freedom. 367 00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:46,020 So to say. 368 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,049 This is of course interesting for 369 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:51,139 Hecker's. I guess if you have the 370 00:13:51,140 --> 00:13:53,629 chance to change some parts, 371 00:13:53,630 --> 00:13:54,529 change electrodes. 372 00:13:54,530 --> 00:13:57,109 And of course, what's also 373 00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:59,179 essential then to have the raw data 374 00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:01,759 access and, uh, and then ergonomics, 375 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,919 I mean, you don't want to waste ten 376 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,979 minutes trying to set up your 377 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:07,980 PCI device, 378 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,639 not maybe in thirty seconds. 379 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,109 That really sucks because like, every 380 00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:13,110 time you want to try 381 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:16,489 and light it at some point 382 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:18,589 during the day and and then you 383 00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:19,969 fiddle around the whole time and then 384 00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:21,649 it's like it's a turn off. 385 00:14:21,650 --> 00:14:23,269 You don't you don't want to deal with it 386 00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:25,489 the whole time. Um, well, 387 00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:26,539 of course you are, depending on what you 388 00:14:26,540 --> 00:14:27,739 want to do. 389 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:30,139 So and then one important thing, 390 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:32,989 um, is the product safety 391 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:35,149 and security or safety. 392 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:37,069 I would say, of course you don't get 393 00:14:37,070 --> 00:14:38,929 electrical, you don't get a shock from 394 00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:41,209 the system. There's not that circuit 395 00:14:41,210 --> 00:14:42,469 or something. 396 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:43,459 And security. 397 00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:45,889 I will come to this later at one point. 398 00:14:45,890 --> 00:14:47,989 Um, and, uh, 399 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:49,639 OK, so just yeah. 400 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,829 I know this is this is just a 401 00:14:51,830 --> 00:14:55,279 few devices. I picked this now um 402 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:56,280 so to say. 403 00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:59,209 Yeah. Just like the Yeah. 404 00:14:59,210 --> 00:15:00,469 Right now popular ones. 405 00:15:00,470 --> 00:15:01,639 But there are also other ones. 406 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,769 Of course if you do some research the 407 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:05,989 news came and wife is kind of um 408 00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:06,990 I think popular, 409 00:15:08,270 --> 00:15:10,429 does a good job and has good connection. 410 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:12,979 I mean it's easy to mount and uh 411 00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:15,079 and they at least have a 412 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,209 white guy. It's it's nicer than the 413 00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:17,569 motive. 414 00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:18,979 I was working with two years, but I was 415 00:15:18,980 --> 00:15:21,049 kind of epoque and 416 00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:23,329 I was kind of a night to put this to 417 00:15:23,330 --> 00:15:26,059 other people's head, actually, because, 418 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:27,110 yeah, if those people have 419 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,549 a lot of hair, you really sitting there 420 00:15:31,550 --> 00:15:34,219 sometimes ten, twenty minutes and 421 00:15:34,220 --> 00:15:36,139 the guy's asking like, what's happening? 422 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:38,229 I don't know. Nothing, nothing 423 00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:40,279 really. Um, uh. 424 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,079 Yeah, I'm waiting for something. 425 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,009 Yeah. The electrodes. 426 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:43,999 Yeah. It's not really working. 427 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,949 Uh and uh yeah. 428 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:48,019 It's also again, as I said, a turn off. 429 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:51,209 Uh but I'm really uh 430 00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:53,209 uh yeah. I'm curious about the inside. 431 00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:55,399 I think it's uh uh actually 432 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,259 just launched in the Interex Muse also 433 00:15:57,260 --> 00:15:58,260 looks like a legit headset. 434 00:15:59,570 --> 00:16:02,059 Melun I put you. I couldn't 435 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:04,339 so they couldn't give me the data really. 436 00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:05,659 But it's also very affordable. 437 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:06,660 Um. 438 00:16:07,150 --> 00:16:09,519 All right, so, um, 439 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,589 OK, so what is the progress? 440 00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:13,869 So if you look at the devices, they 441 00:16:13,870 --> 00:16:15,069 all have dry electrodes. 442 00:16:15,070 --> 00:16:17,739 I mean, it's not like it used to be. 443 00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:19,869 You have to put gel to have good 444 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:22,539 conduct connectivity. 445 00:16:22,540 --> 00:16:23,540 It's different now. 446 00:16:24,970 --> 00:16:25,949 So like dry electrodes. 447 00:16:25,950 --> 00:16:28,059 But the problem is you have to 448 00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:29,060 make sure every. 449 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,889 You get a higher impedance and then 450 00:16:32,890 --> 00:16:34,959 it's a very sensitive to to noise, you 451 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,679 can really get nice very easily. 452 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,549 So you have to think about the 453 00:16:39,550 --> 00:16:41,019 design of your secretary. 454 00:16:41,020 --> 00:16:43,419 And of course, the 455 00:16:43,420 --> 00:16:44,889 agora and rhythms get better. 456 00:16:44,890 --> 00:16:45,890 And it's 457 00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:49,479 something that improves, 458 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,639 of course. But if the signal is 459 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:52,809 bad in the beginning, 460 00:16:54,070 --> 00:16:57,249 sometimes there's not much you can do and 461 00:16:57,250 --> 00:16:59,259 yet then you don't have a working DCI. 462 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:00,440 Actually, um. 463 00:17:01,890 --> 00:17:03,059 OK, that was one of 464 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:06,209 the. OK, so then let's move on 465 00:17:06,210 --> 00:17:09,519 to the open source, DIY, 466 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,009 um, and, uh, 467 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:13,618 so yeah. 468 00:17:13,619 --> 00:17:15,539 So of course the time's a little bit too 469 00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:17,858 short to to go in detail about 470 00:17:17,859 --> 00:17:18,989 the hardware set up. 471 00:17:18,990 --> 00:17:20,639 But we're glad you're going to help you 472 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,169 guys. If you come by. 473 00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:24,239 We can talk and talk on 474 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:25,769 the details of the hardware 475 00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:27,039 implementation. Really. 476 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,979 Um, but yeah. 477 00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:31,049 And also I, I just 478 00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:32,259 picked like a few devices. 479 00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:34,829 Uh, again, that's 480 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:36,720 a project that I'd have 481 00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:40,139 like a tutorial how to do a device 482 00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:43,529 for yourself or that already offer maybe 483 00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:45,089 like a kit or something that you can 484 00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:47,249 really start doing it, 485 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:48,729 doing BCI. 486 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:49,959 Um, OK. 487 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,449 So, um, 488 00:17:52,450 --> 00:17:54,929 just understand the 489 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,119 project. I think it has been and 490 00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:58,979 it's quite popular. This has been online 491 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:01,079 for a long time on the first page 492 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,209 and they're doing a really 493 00:18:03,210 --> 00:18:04,379 good job. They also have a lot of 494 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:05,849 tutorials there. 495 00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:08,189 And um, so and then they say it's like 496 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:09,510 something between two hundred 497 00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:12,819 dollars to have to put the device by 498 00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:14,219 yourself. But then you also have a 499 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:16,369 company that basically, um, 500 00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:19,319 assembled this all in the box. 501 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,579 Um, and uh 502 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:24,689 and then you probably 503 00:18:24,690 --> 00:18:27,419 also heard about the dot com project. 504 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:29,489 This is where you 505 00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:32,129 can 3D print also um, 506 00:18:32,130 --> 00:18:34,229 the PCI 507 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:36,749 device and uh and 508 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:38,909 you have a different 509 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:41,039 approach, also more electrons, 510 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,239 but it's like one with four. 511 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,309 Um, and then the open PCI 512 00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:46,679 dot org, the one that comes from 513 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,269 from retirement and Masahiko and 514 00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:51,329 uh, with over 30 years of 515 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:53,489 research and this is 516 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:54,490 not one 517 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:58,019 that can be stacked and, uh, 518 00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:00,569 a lot of electrodes and we 519 00:19:00,570 --> 00:19:02,989 can be used either with Arduino, 520 00:19:02,990 --> 00:19:04,559 uh, you know, or you can use basically 521 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,389 you can exchange also the microcontroller 522 00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:08,489 here. Um, 523 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:10,859 but yeah. What is the 524 00:19:10,860 --> 00:19:11,969 the core difference. 525 00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:13,229 What is why what. 526 00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:15,149 You either pick the one or the other. 527 00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:17,219 So again, it really depends on 528 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:18,149 what you're planning to do. 529 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:19,679 Is that something you want to do at home, 530 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,279 some simple setup or you want to make, 531 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,509 uh, research, low budget research, sort 532 00:19:24,510 --> 00:19:26,519 of say you want to have, um, holistic 533 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,489 recording with a lot of electrodes. 534 00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:31,619 Um, so do you have to think about 535 00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:33,809 that? But, um, so like 536 00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:36,269 maybe one core difference is also the 537 00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:39,299 aid converter that has a huge impact for 538 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:40,799 the brain to, you know, so you can use 539 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,959 it, uh, actually better 540 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,999 with dry electrodes. 541 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,189 Um, so yeah, it's, 542 00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:49,259 it's more um it's actually 543 00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:51,359 easier to start with it due to 544 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,029 the set up and um. 545 00:19:54,030 --> 00:19:56,039 Yeah. OK, um, just maybe then a few words 546 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,959 to the electrodes because this is the 547 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,309 thing that you cannot um, 548 00:20:00,310 --> 00:20:01,649 I mean you didn't have for the consumer 549 00:20:01,650 --> 00:20:02,650 devices. 550 00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:06,379 Um but like with um. 551 00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:08,599 With Hecate devices, you can really 552 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:09,950 just say, OK, I want this or that, 553 00:20:11,030 --> 00:20:13,279 the very, um, something 554 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,349 that is also in the scientific 555 00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:17,449 realm, if you have to like a 556 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:19,879 standard, is the electrodes, 557 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,889 which are like a cup and they're 558 00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:24,069 basically the materials, something 559 00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:25,879 supercold or tin. 560 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,159 Then you have big differences, 561 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,519 passive and active electrodes. 562 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,609 So passive means 563 00:20:31,610 --> 00:20:33,679 I just make electrodes 564 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,599 and then of course, maybe over wire and 565 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:36,709 then you have the amplification. 566 00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:38,779 But on the way, it's a problem 567 00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:40,879 that you can maybe get some signals. 568 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,069 Also because of electromagnetic 569 00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:45,259 fields, for instance, the active 570 00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:47,749 electrode on the opposite is you 571 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:49,879 amplify the signal right 572 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,489 after the electrode and 573 00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:53,809 which makes a better contact, then a 574 00:20:53,810 --> 00:20:54,810 better signal. 575 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,229 Um, OK, and then also 576 00:20:59,230 --> 00:21:01,869 something very new. You have bendable 577 00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:03,909 electrodes, I saw publication and I think 578 00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:05,169 this also coming up. 579 00:21:05,170 --> 00:21:06,670 So something is very ergonomic 580 00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:10,509 and yeah, of course. 581 00:21:10,510 --> 00:21:12,639 And also you can you can have 582 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,259 electrodes. 583 00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:16,959 You can just take some silver coins and 584 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,689 soldered them to a screw and then 585 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:21,940 connect. It works perfect. 586 00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:25,599 Yeah, OK. 587 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:26,600 And then software. 588 00:21:27,670 --> 00:21:29,769 So I only also picked a few 589 00:21:29,770 --> 00:21:32,289 of course, and there's much more, 590 00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:35,109 but like open like is one of those that's 591 00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:37,929 quite uh 592 00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:40,279 has been there for a long time also. 593 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,669 And do you have a visual editor 594 00:21:42,670 --> 00:21:43,959 and you have all the machine learning and 595 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,609 all the filters there also. 596 00:21:45,610 --> 00:21:48,399 And like a lot of tools 597 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,069 and your brain based also 598 00:21:51,070 --> 00:21:52,539 unfortunately for windows, but 599 00:21:54,790 --> 00:21:56,439 then your new software, 600 00:21:57,550 --> 00:21:59,739 it's not open source, but it's 601 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:00,829 free to use. 602 00:22:00,830 --> 00:22:02,109 Um, so yeah. 603 00:22:02,110 --> 00:22:04,149 But I would suggest for the beginning or 604 00:22:04,150 --> 00:22:06,059 you have maybe some other two boxes for, 605 00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:08,169 for Matlab if you do it like the research 606 00:22:08,170 --> 00:22:09,489 field. 607 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:11,139 But open VIPR is always a good thing to 608 00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:13,119 go I think at the beginning. 609 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,189 And so one important thing I want 610 00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:17,819 to talk about, um. 611 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:19,500 Is privacy issues. 612 00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:23,639 Maybe this feels like it's an early 613 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,979 stage, but if you think about it, if 614 00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:28,139 if brain computer interfaces become 615 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:30,269 more popular, like, you know, you 616 00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:32,549 used to be like Fitbit maybe or something 617 00:22:32,550 --> 00:22:34,499 like that, and now it's you quantified 618 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:36,629 the body. No, you quantified the mind and 619 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:37,529 become popular. 620 00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:38,670 Then you should ask yourself 621 00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:41,549 what happens with my data, with my 622 00:22:41,550 --> 00:22:43,109 brainwave data, because 623 00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:46,259 there's actually some things that you can 624 00:22:46,260 --> 00:22:47,580 do with it and. 625 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,179 Yeah, so let's just take a look 626 00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:52,910 at those titles here, 627 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:56,459 so the headlines and 628 00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:58,589 brainwave privacy standard is needed to 629 00:22:58,590 --> 00:23:00,539 prevent spying on each state has its own 630 00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:01,559 data. 631 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,560 Researchers one. 632 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,459 OK, boffins 633 00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:07,319 proposed brainwave privacy standard EU 634 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,959 data can predict illness 635 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,639 and app makers are storing it in the 636 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,599 cloud. 637 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,309 I think, wow, that's shit. 638 00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:16,379 I don't what that that's really something 639 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:18,179 I want to prevent. 640 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:19,319 So I think it's. 641 00:23:21,010 --> 00:23:23,199 It's a critical time that 642 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,369 we should actually get 643 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:27,879 and get 644 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,309 conversation and to discuss 645 00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:33,039 this really because, um, 646 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,079 yeah, I don't know where this this could 647 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,999 be heading. I mean, I'm not overly 648 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,129 paranoid, but as you can imagine, 649 00:23:39,130 --> 00:23:41,619 there's a lot of things you can really 650 00:23:41,620 --> 00:23:43,839 use here, misuse. 651 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,219 And yeah. 652 00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:46,869 So basically something about health 653 00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:49,659 conditions, cognitive performance. 654 00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:50,769 And then, of course, there was also a 655 00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:53,109 publication of talking about 656 00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:55,509 achieving with the consumer device 657 00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:57,969 they found of the PIN code was the first 658 00:23:57,970 --> 00:24:00,729 location where people you actually know. 659 00:24:00,730 --> 00:24:02,049 So all this data can be actually 660 00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:03,249 compromised. 661 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:05,379 And yeah, so you have different 662 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:06,729 stages of attack. 663 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:08,829 And of course 664 00:24:08,830 --> 00:24:11,079 what we can do is with the open 665 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,269 source community, we can course 666 00:24:14,290 --> 00:24:15,699 look, if if there's something maybe 667 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:18,009 around the device, maybe 668 00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:20,019 we can check out, we can do a 669 00:24:21,580 --> 00:24:23,829 encrypt the brainwave data before we send 670 00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:26,409 it. But OK, 671 00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:28,509 now it's going to be hard anyways, but we 672 00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:29,619 should discuss about it and. 673 00:24:31,150 --> 00:24:34,589 And, uh, yeah, so. 674 00:24:34,590 --> 00:24:37,559 Um, so, again, I would say 675 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,869 it is really something essential 676 00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:41,969 and something we that should be 677 00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:42,970 discussed and. 678 00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:47,449 And then, yeah, so, 679 00:24:47,450 --> 00:24:49,629 um, then this is something 680 00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:52,119 that of where I 681 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,249 really want to also that's why I'm here 682 00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:56,619 also to discuss with you guys 683 00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:58,689 if there's some 684 00:24:58,690 --> 00:24:59,690 approach that. 685 00:25:00,610 --> 00:25:02,979 We can make a safer 686 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:04,980 brainwave experience in the future, 687 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:09,219 and, yeah, so, 688 00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:11,779 um, just come back by the European 689 00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:14,109 space and yeah, 690 00:25:14,110 --> 00:25:15,579 we can discuss. You can try out the 691 00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:17,469 device. We have a lot of devices there 692 00:25:17,470 --> 00:25:20,109 from all sorts of, um, 693 00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:22,539 all the consumer of the 694 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:24,759 opensource device we listed are actually 695 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,279 there and um. 696 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,469 Yeah. Try out on 697 00:25:29,470 --> 00:25:31,149 test and then if you want, if you want to 698 00:25:31,150 --> 00:25:33,469 hack something that'll 699 00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:35,559 help you and 700 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,359 answer all your questions and. 701 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,639 Yeah. Again, as I said. So maybe 702 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,279 you also have a good input for um 703 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,349 so we can kind of go on with the 704 00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:46,630 privacy of data and 705 00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:50,079 then also for the for the brain 706 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,999 to projects, there's going to be a 707 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,769 Kickstarter. We want to make it more 708 00:25:53,770 --> 00:25:54,819 affordable. 709 00:25:54,820 --> 00:25:57,459 Um, also if you want to participate, 710 00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:58,460 um. 711 00:25:59,030 --> 00:26:01,509 Yeah, just come by again, 712 00:26:01,510 --> 00:26:03,799 um, yeah, but that's basically 713 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:04,800 it. 714 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,000 Thank you for listening. 715 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:20,180 OK. 716 00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:23,049 Oh, yeah, right, yeah, there is already 717 00:26:23,050 --> 00:26:24,939 a question from the Internet, so please 718 00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:25,839 go. 719 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,999 Thank you. First question, do you 720 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,979 know of any plans to regulate the whole 721 00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:32,799 technology devices that send 722 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,559 waves and have the capability 723 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,329 to, you know, tamper with your brain 724 00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:40,719 and shouldn't maybe be easily to 725 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:41,720 to be allowed? 726 00:26:43,630 --> 00:26:45,099 Yeah, I'm not sure. 727 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:47,769 I mean, the problem is sometimes you 728 00:26:47,770 --> 00:26:49,479 I mean, the consumer market then. 729 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,609 So, like, OK, I will repeat 730 00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:52,599 the question. 731 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,809 So it's the only way to to 732 00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:56,440 make your shut up. 733 00:26:57,690 --> 00:26:58,690 OK, 734 00:27:00,610 --> 00:27:02,349 so is there any approach. 735 00:27:03,790 --> 00:27:05,499 So I would say the problem is always the 736 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:07,569 disclaimer like 737 00:27:07,570 --> 00:27:09,819 mouse like very small print 738 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:10,820 of things. 739 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,179 And then you're not sure if you're a 740 00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:15,399 consumer of a you know, if you're 741 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,400 buying consumer product. 742 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,659 So from that point, it's 743 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:22,059 quite hard, I think, to to regulate 744 00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:23,060 at this point. 745 00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:26,199 But yeah, I don't know if that 746 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,140 would be like a standard like 747 00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:32,049 a data standards 748 00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:34,000 and safety standards and maybe 749 00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:37,239 this could be done. But of course, 750 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,339 there's so many steps where 751 00:27:39,340 --> 00:27:40,619 you can attack this, actually. 752 00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:44,170 So, yeah, it's it's quite a complicated 753 00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:46,340 topic. 754 00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:53,070 Know 755 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,169 there is a question on the microphone 756 00:27:56,170 --> 00:27:58,369 whether you had this 757 00:27:58,370 --> 00:28:00,319 light at the beginning where you outlined 758 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,599 the basic flow of the data when it, 759 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,669 uh, first it was analog 760 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:06,979 taken from the brain, then, uh, changed 761 00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:10,099 to dialog data and 762 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:11,229 digital. Sorry. 763 00:28:11,230 --> 00:28:13,699 Um, and, uh, 764 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:16,249 there was a filtering process before 765 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,409 that. My question is, is there 766 00:28:18,410 --> 00:28:20,809 a direct, uh, 767 00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:23,029 advantage of filtering the data before 768 00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:25,039 changing it to digital data? 769 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,149 And what sort of filtering is done there, 770 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:29,179 or is it just a bad pass or is there 771 00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:30,349 something else? 772 00:28:30,350 --> 00:28:32,460 Um, that actually, um. 773 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,439 So, I mean, this was quite simplified, 774 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,049 graphic, because we have 775 00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:41,809 also, uh, different kind of amplifiers 776 00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:44,119 before our instrumental. 777 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,219 Um, but 778 00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:47,299 um. 779 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:49,729 Yeah. So, um, 780 00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:51,599 does it make sense before you sort of um 781 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,959 further um but 782 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,179 maybe if you have the time maybe 783 00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:58,399 you can come around and we can show you, 784 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,829 um, like some detailed 785 00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:02,959 schematics actually and try to explain 786 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,269 why, why this makes sense at this point. 787 00:29:05,270 --> 00:29:06,619 Um, but yeah. 788 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:07,819 Also, I mean if you, if you don't wanna 789 00:29:07,820 --> 00:29:08,989 come by, it's all online. 790 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:10,579 I can show. Um. 791 00:29:10,580 --> 00:29:11,580 Yeah. 792 00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:13,110 Um. 793 00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:18,299 Um, um, 794 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:19,300 to my left. 795 00:29:24,220 --> 00:29:25,219 Hello. 796 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:28,209 No, there is a question in there. 797 00:29:28,210 --> 00:29:30,309 Hello. Uh, about the 798 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:32,679 Époque headset, uh, 799 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,329 there was a small bullet point mentioning 800 00:29:34,330 --> 00:29:36,999 that it has, uh, raw data hack. 801 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,499 Could you please elaborate? 802 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:39,939 Uh. 803 00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:41,739 Um, yeah. 804 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:43,839 I mean, I'm not sure of 805 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,369 this. I mean, yeah. 806 00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:47,469 I mean, if you if you look at 807 00:29:47,470 --> 00:29:49,659 a search engine, you can I mean, it's 808 00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:51,910 quite easy to find, um, 809 00:29:52,930 --> 00:29:55,089 it's also and get up there some folks off 810 00:29:55,090 --> 00:29:57,309 it and um. 811 00:29:57,310 --> 00:29:59,439 Yeah, it's actually quite easy 812 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,569 to use. Um but 813 00:30:01,570 --> 00:30:02,769 yeah. 814 00:30:02,770 --> 00:30:04,239 It's possible. 815 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Yeah. 816 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:08,370 Hello. 817 00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:11,089 You were talking about the 818 00:30:11,090 --> 00:30:13,339 dangers and the misuse that can be 819 00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:14,989 done with it, the dangers and the misuse 820 00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:16,129 that can be done with it, with the 821 00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:18,319 system, and there 822 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,599 will be misuse, you know, that will come. 823 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,589 Yeah, I mean, it's part of it. 824 00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:23,969 So how as a scientist, do you 825 00:30:23,970 --> 00:30:25,669 have to work with that? 826 00:30:25,670 --> 00:30:28,159 You know, you on the one hand, you 827 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,259 clearly know that it's good and all 828 00:30:30,260 --> 00:30:31,429 the good things that come out of it. 829 00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:33,169 On the other hand, it's a very, very 830 00:30:33,170 --> 00:30:35,269 powerful technique, technique. 831 00:30:35,270 --> 00:30:37,609 I think people should be able 832 00:30:37,610 --> 00:30:39,199 to decide by themselves if they want to 833 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,789 share their brainwave data or not. 834 00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:44,479 And every action I do before this, 835 00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:47,869 I want to make sure 100 percent that 836 00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:49,629 cannot be compromised. 837 00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:51,950 Um, I think that would be 838 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,799 like maybe some opt in if you can say, 839 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,119 OK, I'm fine. 840 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,219 I put my raw data online 841 00:30:58,220 --> 00:31:00,559 in the cloud. They can use it for 842 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,509 analysis, for like cloud analysis. 843 00:31:03,620 --> 00:31:05,239 Yes, definitely. It's a it's a powerful 844 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,349 tool. 845 00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:08,239 But yeah, I think it should be opt in. 846 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,429 There should be no compromising before 847 00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:11,629 that step. 848 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:13,429 Do you also believe that it will 849 00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:15,919 sometimes, you know, in our society, we 850 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,629 we have the brain and the heart, you 851 00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:19,519 know, and we take separate it. 852 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,529 I don't know why, but this happens. 853 00:31:21,530 --> 00:31:23,809 Do you think it will lead to us 854 00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:25,909 getting brain and heart closer together 855 00:31:25,910 --> 00:31:26,910 again? 856 00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:29,149 I mean, once, you know, sometimes you 857 00:31:29,150 --> 00:31:31,429 don't know what you're feeling, you know, 858 00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:32,949 you can't describe it. 859 00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:34,339 Do you think that that whole technique 860 00:31:34,340 --> 00:31:35,299 can help? 861 00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:37,489 Well, I mean, so basically, I mean, 862 00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:39,559 how I think about neurofeedback, for 863 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,449 instance, is it's like meditation with 864 00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:43,579 guidance. So 865 00:31:43,580 --> 00:31:45,769 like all the like 866 00:31:45,770 --> 00:31:47,239 the research also going on with 867 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,699 meditation, you know, kind of 868 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,109 bring into the call what what does it 869 00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:53,389 really do, what how it changes your 870 00:31:53,390 --> 00:31:56,239 brain with chemicals really and 871 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,349 in a profound way. 872 00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:59,539 And I mean, what 873 00:31:59,540 --> 00:32:02,089 with this I mean, what's 874 00:32:02,090 --> 00:32:04,609 following this is that, um, 875 00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:07,099 you become more aware, of course, 876 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:09,079 of your surroundings. So maybe in a way, 877 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,269 this this brings this 878 00:32:11,270 --> 00:32:13,489 brings close together and the mind 879 00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:14,900 sort of say, um. 880 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:16,939 Yeah, yeah. 881 00:32:16,940 --> 00:32:19,279 So there is a question to 882 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:20,390 the microphone at my right. 883 00:32:21,620 --> 00:32:23,839 I think, um, BCI is quite interesting, 884 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,269 but since it's an interface, 885 00:32:26,270 --> 00:32:27,919 I'm interested in whether there are any 886 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,989 methods of inducing brainwaves 887 00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:31,729 instead of just measuring them. 888 00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:33,229 Imagine a world in which you think of 889 00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:35,449 something and I am a Wikipedia article 890 00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:37,139 directly in your brain. 891 00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:38,629 Quite interesting. 892 00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:41,059 Um, yeah. So this is the 893 00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:42,829 um. I mean, there are different 894 00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:45,379 approaches right now noninvasively. 895 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:46,819 But in a way it is invasive. 896 00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:48,199 You have the topics. 897 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,299 Um but I 898 00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:51,300 mean so 899 00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:54,949 the problem is you don't have like long 900 00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:55,999 term research on this. 901 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,739 You can you can be your own guinea pig. 902 00:32:57,740 --> 00:32:59,839 Of course you can buy the devices 903 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,909 and just check it out what it 904 00:33:01,910 --> 00:33:04,009 does. Um, but 905 00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:06,079 so like this is like forcing brainwave 906 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,249 activity. 907 00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:09,379 The other thing I mean, I try to explain 908 00:33:09,380 --> 00:33:11,479 the neurofeedback is really it 909 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,799 takes some time. 910 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,959 But, um, there's like 911 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,059 depending on what protocol you're using, 912 00:33:17,060 --> 00:33:19,159 you can regulate also you can change 913 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,209 brainwave activity. 914 00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:22,639 And the great thing about it, 915 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,189 it stays the way it's so it's not like, 916 00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:26,659 um, so like you're really building new 917 00:33:26,660 --> 00:33:28,399 bridges in your brain. 918 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,989 I mean the same with TDE, but it's not 919 00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:31,819 fast. And the problem with TCS also, it's 920 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:34,099 like very unspecific right 921 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:36,439 now at least it's like you're firing 922 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,689 in every direction and, um, changing 923 00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:40,729 something forcefully. 924 00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:42,229 Um, yeah. 925 00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:44,239 Thank you. Um, there is time for one last 926 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,339 question from the signal Angel. 927 00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:48,739 Thank you. My question from the Internet 928 00:33:48,740 --> 00:33:50,329 goes along the lines of the last 929 00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:52,489 question. Could you elaborate a little 930 00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:54,649 bit on the brain wave training 931 00:33:54,650 --> 00:33:55,669 part? 932 00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:57,229 Um, what's the status? 933 00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:58,549 Um, what are the benefits? 934 00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:02,929 Yeah. So, I mean, it's use right now, um, 935 00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:05,359 uh, for instance, to, 936 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,669 um, like aid like attention 937 00:34:07,670 --> 00:34:09,019 deficit disorder. 938 00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:11,119 Um, it's an alternative to to 939 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,888 Ritalin. I could tell you, you know, 940 00:34:12,889 --> 00:34:14,599 that's like, um, basically it's an 941 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,399 amphetamine that they're giving to 942 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,329 children. 943 00:34:17,330 --> 00:34:19,428 And, um, so it's very harmful for 944 00:34:19,429 --> 00:34:20,209 the body. 945 00:34:20,210 --> 00:34:22,428 Um, but instead you can do neurofeedback 946 00:34:22,429 --> 00:34:23,509 training actually. 947 00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:25,908 Um, and uh, so 948 00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:27,439 I mean, of course you have to do some 949 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,569 practice and maybe you have to do also 950 00:34:29,570 --> 00:34:30,888 some follow up practice. 951 00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:33,138 But in the long run it helps 952 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:35,269 you with a situation and a very good 953 00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:37,339 way also. And you don't have to take 954 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:38,340 chemicals. 955 00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:40,638 Uh, I'm sorry for you guys, but we're 956 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:41,928 running out of time and I've got to cut 957 00:34:41,929 --> 00:34:42,859 it short, so. 958 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:44,299 Yeah. Thanks a lot. 959 00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:45,860 Yeah. Also, you can just come by.