0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/763 Thanks! 1 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,400 So, again, this talk is 2 00:00:15,420 --> 00:00:17,339 rebels is called rebel cities Toltz, a 3 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:19,679 global network of neighborhoods 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,510 and cities rejecting surveillance. 5 00:00:22,780 --> 00:00:23,780 Um, 6 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:27,989 your speaker is Renata 7 00:00:27,990 --> 00:00:28,990 Avila. 8 00:00:29,730 --> 00:00:31,079 She's a human rights lawyer. 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:32,789 She represented Julian Assange and 10 00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:33,790 WikiLeaks 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,259 and is a board member of the Creative 12 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:38,909 Commons and chairperson of Creative 13 00:00:38,910 --> 00:00:40,679 Commons, Guatemala. 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,779 And yet the Congress 15 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:44,999 also to find some people that would like 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,159 to get involved with the Courage 17 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:48,599 Foundation campaign. So that's one of 18 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:49,989 your things. Go find you later. 19 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,039 And for now, enjoy the talk. 20 00:01:00,580 --> 00:01:02,679 Well, first of all, thank you so 21 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,869 much for having me here, it is 22 00:01:04,870 --> 00:01:07,089 a humbling experience to be on this side 23 00:01:07,090 --> 00:01:09,999 because I'm usually not on that side. 24 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,069 And now I know what my mother, 25 00:01:12,070 --> 00:01:14,289 who was one of the four 26 00:01:14,290 --> 00:01:16,809 women in engineering school, 27 00:01:16,810 --> 00:01:18,849 felt in the classroom every day. 28 00:01:20,350 --> 00:01:22,429 But it is not intimidating at all. 29 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:24,069 Actually, it is. 30 00:01:24,070 --> 00:01:26,289 It is challenging because I know 31 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:29,439 that most of you know 32 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,669 far more about technology and its 33 00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:34,059 Deuce's, but I know that I can contribute 34 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:35,849 something to you today. 35 00:01:35,850 --> 00:01:38,439 I hope I can contribute something 36 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,869 to this challenging conversation 37 00:01:40,870 --> 00:01:41,799 around cities. 38 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,929 And I really, really hope that you 39 00:01:43,930 --> 00:01:45,909 will leave this room with a long list of 40 00:01:45,910 --> 00:01:48,429 tools that you can do locally 41 00:01:48,430 --> 00:01:51,069 in order to challenge surveillance. 42 00:01:51,070 --> 00:01:53,829 So the proposal of this dog 43 00:01:53,830 --> 00:01:56,139 was inspired because 44 00:01:56,140 --> 00:01:57,849 there's an increased 45 00:01:59,230 --> 00:02:01,239 paranoia on me. 46 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,469 I used to I mean, 47 00:02:03,490 --> 00:02:05,769 I was surprised 48 00:02:05,770 --> 00:02:07,599 when I started to spend more time in 49 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,788 Europe instead of in Latin America 50 00:02:09,789 --> 00:02:12,579 on how used to 51 00:02:12,580 --> 00:02:14,529 oppressive surveillance technologies. 52 00:02:14,530 --> 00:02:17,080 Latin Americans are included 53 00:02:18,310 --> 00:02:20,559 constantly, like the typical day 54 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,899 for a Latin American involves 55 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,569 so many checkpoints, points of control 56 00:02:25,570 --> 00:02:27,789 and things that we we simply 57 00:02:27,790 --> 00:02:29,139 got used to it. 58 00:02:29,140 --> 00:02:31,029 For example, to enter a building, you 59 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:33,459 will have to show your 60 00:02:33,460 --> 00:02:35,739 ID like twice to private 61 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:37,749 security officers. 62 00:02:37,750 --> 00:02:40,299 You will have you will have your I.D. 63 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:41,709 There is a biometric I.D. 64 00:02:41,710 --> 00:02:44,409 scanned and stored somewhere. 65 00:02:44,410 --> 00:02:45,969 Most of the countries do not have even 66 00:02:45,970 --> 00:02:47,779 data protection laws and so on. 67 00:02:47,780 --> 00:02:50,649 So basically 68 00:02:50,650 --> 00:02:52,959 also another another layer 69 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,089 of worry is start to bother 70 00:02:55,090 --> 00:02:57,699 me. And that was the increased 71 00:02:57,700 --> 00:02:59,229 protection on trade secrets. 72 00:02:59,230 --> 00:03:01,569 And if we saw the talk before 73 00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:02,800 with Mr. Harvey, 74 00:03:04,420 --> 00:03:05,979 I mean, it is getting 75 00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:09,219 more and more complex, these 76 00:03:09,220 --> 00:03:11,169 sophisticated systems of commercial 77 00:03:11,170 --> 00:03:13,749 surveillance to sell us and stuff. 78 00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:15,729 And at the same time, it is getting more 79 00:03:15,730 --> 00:03:17,859 and more challenging to even know how 80 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:19,090 these systems are built. 81 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:22,239 Europe passed this 82 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,609 year, the new trade secrets directive, 83 00:03:24,610 --> 00:03:27,249 and that will likely be exported 84 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:28,299 everywhere. 85 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:30,489 So the scrutiny 86 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:32,949 that citizens can exercise 87 00:03:32,950 --> 00:03:35,199 is getting limited and 88 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,609 also notes of corruption. 89 00:03:36,610 --> 00:03:38,469 I mean, this year was especially 90 00:03:38,470 --> 00:03:40,419 interesting to understand. 91 00:03:40,420 --> 00:03:42,729 And I think that, again, Latin Americans, 92 00:03:42,730 --> 00:03:44,709 we are more used to these 93 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,729 sophisticated, connected 94 00:03:48,730 --> 00:03:51,549 networks of corrupted people corrupting 95 00:03:51,550 --> 00:03:53,289 elections, corrupt in many, many other 96 00:03:53,290 --> 00:03:54,969 things, media. 97 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:57,129 But I think that this year and 98 00:03:57,130 --> 00:03:59,199 the election of Donald Trump and many 99 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,509 other things that happen as show that 100 00:04:01,510 --> 00:04:03,610 the rich 101 00:04:04,870 --> 00:04:06,519 so-called democratic countries are not 102 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,109 immune to to that. 103 00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:11,259 And it is there it 104 00:04:11,260 --> 00:04:12,549 was just not as visible. 105 00:04:12,550 --> 00:04:14,919 So but 106 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,999 so I started OK, 107 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,189 activism is great. 108 00:04:18,190 --> 00:04:20,559 But I have been working on on 109 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,749 grassroots digital activism for the three 110 00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:25,509 years and nothing is really happening. 111 00:04:25,510 --> 00:04:27,729 And so I 112 00:04:27,730 --> 00:04:29,769 am a positive, very positive person. 113 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:31,929 So I decided instead 114 00:04:31,930 --> 00:04:33,909 of looking at what wasn't working, to 115 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:36,339 look at examples of communities 116 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:38,529 and networks that where 117 00:04:38,530 --> 00:04:40,839 there activism is working 118 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:43,089 even with little resources 119 00:04:43,090 --> 00:04:45,219 and with very high opponents. 120 00:04:45,220 --> 00:04:47,499 So I found inspiration 121 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,749 home at home. 122 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:52,149 And that's long before 123 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:54,009 standing rock situation. 124 00:04:54,010 --> 00:04:56,409 The U.S. indigenous people, 125 00:04:56,410 --> 00:04:58,629 because of a 126 00:04:58,630 --> 00:05:00,879 legal frame and an international legal 127 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,639 frame on the right 128 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,129 of indigenous people to be consulted 129 00:05:06,130 --> 00:05:08,529 in projects 130 00:05:08,530 --> 00:05:11,229 that affect them and impact 131 00:05:11,230 --> 00:05:13,119 their territories and the place they 132 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,169 live. 133 00:05:14,170 --> 00:05:16,239 They have the right they have been 134 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,239 exercising community 135 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,699 processes of of of 136 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:24,009 either accepting or rejecting mining 137 00:05:24,010 --> 00:05:26,859 projects, fracking projects, and 138 00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:29,109 any project that might affect 139 00:05:29,110 --> 00:05:30,879 the place where they live. 140 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,949 They were like the the first 141 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:34,749 hint of inspiration for me to prepare 142 00:05:34,750 --> 00:05:37,029 this stuff, because, I mean, they 143 00:05:37,030 --> 00:05:38,859 most of the indigenous communities doing 144 00:05:38,860 --> 00:05:41,139 this live below the poverty 145 00:05:41,140 --> 00:05:43,049 line, most of the indigenous communities 146 00:05:43,050 --> 00:05:44,649 that are doing these exercises and 147 00:05:44,650 --> 00:05:47,259 rejecting things that will 148 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:49,899 bring to their communities a relative 149 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:52,029 wealth, economic wealth, but 150 00:05:52,030 --> 00:05:54,369 will damage the rest, 151 00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:56,469 are doing a very courageous, 152 00:05:56,470 --> 00:05:59,139 constant exercises of democracy 153 00:05:59,140 --> 00:06:00,459 and. 154 00:06:00,460 --> 00:06:02,989 A very powerful multinational's 155 00:06:02,990 --> 00:06:05,119 by getting like 156 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,399 active, but 157 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,409 that's not new and that's that's 158 00:06:09,410 --> 00:06:11,609 happening more and more and more is very 159 00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:13,999 visible because, of course, your prayers 160 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,899 were not reported. 161 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:16,429 And, of course, they are under great 162 00:06:16,430 --> 00:06:19,309 stress. My second inspiration was 163 00:06:19,310 --> 00:06:21,499 what happened and is happening in Europe, 164 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:22,519 and it's very exciting. 165 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,889 Is that really radical majors 166 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:27,229 that care a 167 00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:30,429 place of public interest above 168 00:06:30,430 --> 00:06:32,569 a financial gain or 169 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:34,129 getting elected? 170 00:06:34,130 --> 00:06:36,289 And it is amazing how well we 171 00:06:36,290 --> 00:06:37,819 we have been tricked. 172 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:40,039 I think we have been tricked to believe 173 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,349 that you cannot that government is bad, 174 00:06:42,350 --> 00:06:44,269 that you can you shouldn't get involved 175 00:06:44,270 --> 00:06:46,159 in politics and you cannot change 176 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,379 anything. In fact, you can change 177 00:06:48,380 --> 00:06:50,719 a lot if you are if you are 178 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,309 inside power. 179 00:06:52,310 --> 00:06:54,379 And in Spain, this is an 180 00:06:54,380 --> 00:06:55,790 interesting example, because 181 00:06:58,430 --> 00:07:00,559 two radical mayors 182 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,419 got elected in the most important cities 183 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:03,769 of Madrid and Barcelona. 184 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:05,899 And one of the first policies that the 185 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:08,119 mayor of Madrid did was a 186 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,369 policy of refugees welcome 187 00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:12,979 even even if her governments, 188 00:07:12,980 --> 00:07:14,779 their central government is saying like, 189 00:07:14,780 --> 00:07:16,939 no, no, no, no, we don't want refugees 190 00:07:16,940 --> 00:07:19,009 in Spain and they are very racist and so 191 00:07:19,010 --> 00:07:21,229 on, opening 192 00:07:21,230 --> 00:07:23,479 the doors of the city 193 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,119 of Madrid to 194 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,879 those coming and dedicating 195 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,949 and allocating public funds to that, it 196 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:32,059 is a big step. 197 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:34,419 So and 198 00:07:34,420 --> 00:07:35,779 I bear with me. 199 00:07:35,780 --> 00:07:38,299 I'm getting closer to our issues. 200 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:40,939 The next thing and that was superexcited 201 00:07:40,940 --> 00:07:43,219 is like, OK, a city 202 00:07:43,220 --> 00:07:45,589 can do a lot, but a network 203 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:48,649 of cities can send a powerful message 204 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:50,779 to those to those on 205 00:07:50,780 --> 00:07:52,729 the other side trying to control us and 206 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:54,139 to manipulate us. 207 00:07:54,140 --> 00:07:55,579 And that was 208 00:07:56,650 --> 00:07:58,939 the third example which hinted 209 00:07:58,940 --> 00:08:01,219 me at the power of cities 210 00:08:01,220 --> 00:08:03,439 to and neighborhoods to do to change 211 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,739 things. Is there free 212 00:08:05,740 --> 00:08:07,279 tip zones? 213 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,529 60 municipalities 214 00:08:09,530 --> 00:08:11,929 in Europe declared themselves 215 00:08:11,930 --> 00:08:14,149 as cities 216 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:16,220 like challenging that that tip. 217 00:08:18,470 --> 00:08:20,629 I think that 60 municipalities, if 218 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:22,969 you if you combine 219 00:08:22,970 --> 00:08:25,159 all the services that they 220 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,319 purchase, all their policies that 221 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,989 they influence and the constituency 222 00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:32,269 that they have behind it is a very 223 00:08:32,270 --> 00:08:34,879 powerful political force. 224 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,339 It is all together. 225 00:08:37,340 --> 00:08:39,469 I mean, the population of those cities, 226 00:08:39,470 --> 00:08:41,779 most of the most populated cities 227 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:43,939 of Europe can can 228 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:45,559 really shift an election 229 00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:49,190 that at some point 230 00:08:50,690 --> 00:08:53,509 then that's my other inspiration. 231 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:55,039 She's Nerida Cifuentes. 232 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,019 She's a parliamentarian from Bolivia. 233 00:08:57,020 --> 00:08:58,909 And she is my age. 234 00:08:58,910 --> 00:09:01,129 I when I read the list 235 00:09:01,130 --> 00:09:03,409 of achievements of Neruda and 236 00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:05,809 my tiny, tiny list of achievements, 237 00:09:05,810 --> 00:09:07,969 I feel like like really, really, 238 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:10,039 really. I have done nothing with my 239 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,059 life. 240 00:09:11,060 --> 00:09:13,399 She's she's a community 241 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,169 leader and radio activist. 242 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:19,069 And she got elected to the assembly 243 00:09:19,070 --> 00:09:20,689 in Bolivia, an indigenous woman. 244 00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:22,519 Imagine all the barriers that she had to 245 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,799 defeat and she became free software 246 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,129 activist. 247 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:28,279 I know that we 248 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,529 haven't heard so much of all of 249 00:09:30,530 --> 00:09:31,699 this kind of activism. 250 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:33,799 But again, it's the things that don't 251 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,209 get reported so much. 252 00:09:35,210 --> 00:09:37,849 And as part of the amazing 253 00:09:37,850 --> 00:09:40,369 work work the narrator has done 254 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:42,469 on the local level is to 255 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:44,699 design a 256 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:47,029 complete whole 257 00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:49,279 framework for free software, free hard 258 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,579 work and digital sovereignty. 259 00:09:52,580 --> 00:09:55,009 And what is very interesting is, OK, 260 00:09:55,010 --> 00:09:57,379 it might it might be super impractical. 261 00:09:57,380 --> 00:09:58,729 It might be like really difficult to 262 00:09:58,730 --> 00:09:59,719 implement in Bolivia. 263 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,579 But what it what it's really important 264 00:10:01,580 --> 00:10:03,829 for me is that 265 00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:05,929 as she departed from 266 00:10:05,930 --> 00:10:08,029 what she experience of 267 00:10:08,030 --> 00:10:10,309 colonization, of oppression, 268 00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:12,139 of exclusion, of racism. 269 00:10:12,140 --> 00:10:14,479 So all the frames that she developed 270 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,819 are designed from the local 271 00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:19,429 realities and trying to affect 272 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:20,809 local policies. 273 00:10:20,810 --> 00:10:22,340 And if 274 00:10:23,660 --> 00:10:25,789 if in Bolivia, someone 275 00:10:25,790 --> 00:10:27,859 who only adopted late in 276 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:29,809 life technology is thinking about that, 277 00:10:29,810 --> 00:10:32,419 why why we are not thinking on more 278 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:34,759 proactive, positive agendas around 279 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,499 our issues. 280 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:38,989 And my last inspiration was, 281 00:10:38,990 --> 00:10:41,119 of course, the mayor of Barcelona at 282 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,309 Akolo, and she got 283 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:44,689 elected last year. 284 00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:46,819 And one of the first things that she did 285 00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:48,889 was to invite a bunch 286 00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:51,769 of digital rights organizations to 287 00:10:51,770 --> 00:10:54,319 her office and in her office 288 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,329 instead of having, you know, like 289 00:10:56,330 --> 00:10:59,149 diplomas and thinks about herself. 290 00:10:59,150 --> 00:11:02,149 And what she had on her desk was 291 00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:04,369 the picture of the first anarchist woman 292 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:06,529 who got into power in Spain, the first 293 00:11:06,530 --> 00:11:08,659 minister. I think it was of health. 294 00:11:08,660 --> 00:11:10,369 And it was a very interesting experience 295 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:12,499 because she didn't know anything about 296 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,659 our topics, technology, surveillance and 297 00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:15,589 all of that. 298 00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:17,539 But she opened the door. 299 00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:19,729 And because she comes she 300 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:21,079 comes from social movements. 301 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,179 So she she was this welcoming 302 00:11:23,180 --> 00:11:25,459 authority that was willing to listen. 303 00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:27,559 And that really started the process to 304 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:29,899 renovating and 305 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:32,329 examining and taking a critical approach 306 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:34,909 on what what kind of technology, 307 00:11:34,910 --> 00:11:37,070 what was purchased. 308 00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:40,769 And then getting 309 00:11:40,770 --> 00:11:42,989 closer to the topics and 310 00:11:42,990 --> 00:11:45,659 ACLU connected 311 00:11:45,660 --> 00:11:47,759 also a network of cities to 312 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,649 challenge police surveillance and the 313 00:11:49,650 --> 00:11:51,720 kind of technology that police was 314 00:11:53,310 --> 00:11:55,679 getting in order to monitor 315 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:56,639 citizens. 316 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,609 Well, that got me back to 317 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:01,769 to my my my 318 00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:04,139 local neighborhood, because 319 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:05,729 bad policy is contagious. 320 00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:07,229 Not only courage is contagious, but 321 00:12:07,230 --> 00:12:09,569 policy and bad public 322 00:12:09,570 --> 00:12:10,769 policy. 323 00:12:10,770 --> 00:12:12,959 When money is involved, it really 324 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:13,879 gets it. 325 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,139 It spreads quickly, especially when the 326 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:18,419 asymmetry of the knowledge 327 00:12:18,420 --> 00:12:20,909 of those who take the decisions 328 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:23,009 in public office and those outside 329 00:12:23,010 --> 00:12:25,289 convincing them and 330 00:12:25,290 --> 00:12:27,719 with a big stake, making a big profit 331 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,069 on it. 332 00:12:29,070 --> 00:12:30,419 It is huge 333 00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:33,869 municipalities in in in 334 00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:36,209 Latin America, in many countries, even 335 00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:38,669 here, municipalities and people 336 00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:40,589 buying the things. 337 00:12:40,590 --> 00:12:42,539 They do not have a very sophisticated 338 00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:45,179 knowledge on what they are acquiring and 339 00:12:45,180 --> 00:12:47,669 usually vendors of surveillance 340 00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:49,799 technologies and vendors of control 341 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,839 technologies and even vendors of these 342 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,999 fake technologies to 343 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,639 improve bad neighborhoods and so on, 344 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,829 that arrive with very shiny videos 345 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:00,929 and brochures trying 346 00:13:00,930 --> 00:13:02,719 to convince them that this is good and 347 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,289 they will get results and they will 348 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,769 it will it will be good for 349 00:13:07,770 --> 00:13:09,659 the city to adopt this technology. 350 00:13:10,830 --> 00:13:12,899 And technology like 351 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:15,149 adopting a technological solution 352 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:16,150 usually 353 00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:20,429 sounds good when you are trying to sell 354 00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:23,159 to sell your political project, 355 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,349 usually in the in in 356 00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:26,939 each and every government plan. 357 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:30,159 Nowadays, you hear 358 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,159 the mention of technology, technology, 359 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,349 the analogy to improve our lives 360 00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:35,879 and smart cities, of course. 361 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,099 But I do not even want to get into 362 00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:39,480 the smart cities issue. 363 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:42,749 I want just to stay in this 364 00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:44,939 in this imbalance 365 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:47,069 in the power of those taking those 366 00:13:47,070 --> 00:13:48,089 decisions. 367 00:13:48,090 --> 00:13:49,090 So. 368 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:51,830 The thing is, 369 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:55,039 I wanted to make that very clear, that 370 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,199 when when when 371 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,269 a city and when a space when a 372 00:13:59,270 --> 00:14:01,969 neighborhood embraces 373 00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:03,469 surveillance technologies, we are 374 00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:05,629 sacrificing more than just privacy. 375 00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:09,319 And I think that we have failed 376 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,139 in the activism due to quantified 377 00:14:12,140 --> 00:14:14,209 what we are losing not only in terms of 378 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:16,489 rights, but also in terms of what 379 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:18,469 you can do instead with the money and the 380 00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:21,159 resources that we are investing in, 381 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,299 in in all the surveillance 382 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:26,119 technology and all the sensors 383 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,829 around us in the cities. 384 00:14:27,830 --> 00:14:30,169 And that that could be like 385 00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:32,389 that, like better parks, 386 00:14:32,390 --> 00:14:34,639 better libraries, better, better public 387 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,159 spaces for youth at risk and 388 00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:40,909 by the benefits 389 00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:42,440 of these kind of places are. 390 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:46,419 A bigger but we are 391 00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,830 also sacrificing 392 00:14:49,570 --> 00:14:50,979 the right to protest. 393 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:53,590 So basically 394 00:14:54,820 --> 00:14:57,549 this surveillance populism is 395 00:14:57,550 --> 00:14:59,589 lots of lights and empty promises. 396 00:14:59,590 --> 00:15:02,679 I quote my city as an example. 397 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,349 First, we we had open doors, 398 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:07,959 then all the 399 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,479 doors were secured, then 400 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,579 cables, electrified cables we put 401 00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:14,769 around the houses and then a little 402 00:15:14,770 --> 00:15:16,179 camera was installed. 403 00:15:16,180 --> 00:15:18,669 Then you needed a guard for 404 00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:20,679 every every four blocks. 405 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,749 And so we leave more and 406 00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:25,149 more and more trapped into that 407 00:15:25,150 --> 00:15:26,859 and less and less secure. 408 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:29,139 16 Jesse Muqtedar, 409 00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:30,969 16 murders per day. 410 00:15:30,970 --> 00:15:33,039 So it is it is obviously not 411 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,259 working. And every 412 00:15:35,260 --> 00:15:37,539 year the municipalities get these 413 00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:39,609 vendors and usually 414 00:15:39,610 --> 00:15:41,019 even international aid, 415 00:15:42,070 --> 00:15:43,779 pushing them to install cameras 416 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:46,329 everywhere, pushing them to mesure 417 00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:47,580 and to target 418 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:51,609 a certain certain behaviors 419 00:15:51,610 --> 00:15:53,769 and to monitor specifically 420 00:15:53,770 --> 00:15:55,479 certain neighborhoods that are usually 421 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,699 those are the poorest and those 422 00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:59,799 needing other kind 423 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,599 of intervention. 424 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:02,600 So 425 00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:04,769 I 426 00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:08,539 move into the practical aspect. 427 00:16:08,540 --> 00:16:11,229 So I want to 428 00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:13,539 explain basically what I'm proposing. 429 00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:15,909 And I would like to hear from you 430 00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:17,499 whether it sounds right. 431 00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:19,749 And ideally, I would like 432 00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:22,749 to move and dedicate my 2017 433 00:16:22,750 --> 00:16:25,269 in developing this positive agenda 434 00:16:25,270 --> 00:16:27,519 and this series of guidelines on 435 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,039 when we have an ally in power 436 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,739 or when we have the opportunity to 437 00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:34,869 participate and intervene in the local 438 00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:36,669 decisions and how to get rid of the 439 00:16:36,670 --> 00:16:37,899 problem. 440 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,059 And and if we 441 00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:42,129 are lucky enough and if 442 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:44,709 we have a supportive local government 443 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:47,049 elected, the first step 444 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:49,539 that I suggest in this frame of 445 00:16:49,540 --> 00:16:51,849 reference neighborhoods and cities 446 00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:53,919 against surveillance is to make an 447 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,959 inventory of all the surveillance that 448 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,819 has been like installed over the last 449 00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:00,129 five years and to look into 450 00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:02,199 the into the kind of 451 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,749 contracts have the cost 452 00:17:04,750 --> 00:17:06,338 and efficiency of the surveillance 453 00:17:06,339 --> 00:17:08,140 installed and. 454 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,848 If it's not working and or 455 00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:13,949 if it's not even data available 456 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:15,419 of that, get rid of that. 457 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:18,088 If if a person in in 458 00:17:18,089 --> 00:17:19,680 in a position of power is 459 00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:22,929 able to decide, get rid of the 460 00:17:22,930 --> 00:17:25,229 system, it is important to 461 00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:27,328 it is important to make it the one of the 462 00:17:27,329 --> 00:17:29,549 first interventions in the government 463 00:17:29,550 --> 00:17:31,949 exposing to the to the city 464 00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:35,119 how it is a waste of time and money. 465 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:36,120 The other thing. 466 00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:42,039 The other thing that we can 467 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,469 also dismantle the surveillance systems 468 00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:47,079 in our neighborhoods and buildings, 469 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,239 I don't know how many more 470 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,959 and more we live in privatized spaces 471 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,029 governed by the dictatorship 472 00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:56,439 of the administrator. 473 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,599 I don't know if that happens to you, but 474 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,149 I am in for a while in Belgrade 475 00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,159 and I don't understand Cyrillic. 476 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,929 So it was there was a notice in my 477 00:18:04,930 --> 00:18:07,059 building saying I didn't I 478 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:07,989 couldn't read. 479 00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:10,239 And he was inviting all the all 480 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,579 the tenants to come because they wanted 481 00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:13,899 to install a camera. 482 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:15,099 I missed the meeting. 483 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:17,199 I really regret that I couldn't 484 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,999 read Cyrillic. And it means the meeting 485 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,249 because I came back from a travel 486 00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:23,109 and there was a big camera installed in 487 00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:26,019 front in front of my door and and 488 00:18:26,020 --> 00:18:28,089 sometimes out of laziness, 489 00:18:28,090 --> 00:18:30,459 out of apathy, of the lack of time. 490 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:32,299 We do not participate in this kind of 491 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:33,429 decisions. 492 00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:35,749 And then surveillance is deployed 493 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:37,149 in private places. 494 00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:39,579 And then we do not even question 495 00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:41,889 who who decided that how much 496 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:43,959 we are paying for it and how much 497 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,029 we are giving away with it, especially 498 00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:47,030 when it's for free. 499 00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:50,949 The other thing that I propose 500 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:52,779 here in this frame and very quickly is. 501 00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,619 Cities have the ability to regulate 502 00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:58,929 a lot, and they and 503 00:18:58,930 --> 00:19:00,999 they regulate, like whether you can 504 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,159 walk your dog here or 505 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,129 whether you can plant cactus or 506 00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:07,840 whatever here, like 507 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,229 the space, the public space 508 00:19:11,230 --> 00:19:12,819 in the city's heavily regulated. 509 00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:15,429 But surprisingly, cities 510 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:17,769 are not regulating this 511 00:19:17,770 --> 00:19:20,259 invisible but yet intrusive activities 512 00:19:20,260 --> 00:19:21,429 in public space. 513 00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:23,559 So I am 514 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,929 proposing in this frame to regulate data 515 00:19:25,930 --> 00:19:29,049 collection, to regulate any 516 00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:31,659 Wi-Fi service, any 517 00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:33,879 any free 518 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,279 service that is provided even 519 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,529 within the 520 00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:40,469 areas of competence of a city. 521 00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:42,549 I know that many 522 00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:44,559 questioned me about it is very difficult 523 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,419 to enforce. Well, we need to find the 524 00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:48,369 right incentives to do that. 525 00:19:48,370 --> 00:19:50,609 If, for example, 526 00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:52,989 music that is played in a place 527 00:19:52,990 --> 00:19:55,119 or whether it is loud or what 528 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,339 is too low, it is regulated 529 00:19:57,340 --> 00:20:00,309 like very, very hard to regulate things. 530 00:20:00,310 --> 00:20:02,379 We need to make very, very difficult 531 00:20:02,380 --> 00:20:04,599 to use as a relvar, 532 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,999 condemn calls, data 533 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,000 farmers, 534 00:20:09,910 --> 00:20:11,109 collecting data of people. 535 00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:13,149 We need to make very difficult for them 536 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:15,219 to be able to execute these activities in 537 00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:18,009 public spaces, especially in places 538 00:20:18,010 --> 00:20:20,259 where children go, in places where 539 00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:22,509 we want to have a private 540 00:20:22,510 --> 00:20:24,459 time away from the cameras and also 541 00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:26,649 cameras that are becoming more and 542 00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:28,329 more and more invisible and more like 543 00:20:28,330 --> 00:20:29,829 melted into the environment. 544 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:32,289 We need to start regulating that 545 00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:33,290 and 546 00:20:35,230 --> 00:20:37,389 regulating what private actors do 547 00:20:37,390 --> 00:20:40,329 to be more in 548 00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:42,879 more private security 549 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,949 is invading every space, 550 00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:47,199 not only public space, but 551 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,389 spaces that the general that 552 00:20:49,390 --> 00:20:51,639 is open to the public 553 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,219 and we need to increase 554 00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:56,439 like cities can increase the scrutiny on 555 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,999 what they are doing with the data and 556 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,029 what what these people are actually doing 557 00:21:01,030 --> 00:21:03,279 with the monitoring activities. 558 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,799 And the third thing is efficiency 559 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:06,729 and expenditure. 560 00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:08,829 I mean, we need to quantify what we are 561 00:21:08,830 --> 00:21:10,959 giving away every time that these systems 562 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,419 are deployed. And we also need to 563 00:21:13,420 --> 00:21:15,909 point out at those who are wasting 564 00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:18,339 public funds, deploying systems 565 00:21:18,340 --> 00:21:20,049 that are inefficient and that are 566 00:21:20,050 --> 00:21:22,059 intrusive and. 567 00:21:23,170 --> 00:21:25,719 Also encouraging local vendors 568 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,239 because more and more and 569 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,189 that's a very important that we need the 570 00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:32,679 help of many of you here is 571 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,749 when is going to 572 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,909 buy buy equipment of 573 00:21:36,910 --> 00:21:38,229 this kind? 574 00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:40,569 Usually they grade 575 00:21:40,570 --> 00:21:42,669 the specifications of the equipment and 576 00:21:42,670 --> 00:21:45,009 on the systems based on the brochures 577 00:21:45,010 --> 00:21:46,779 that they're getting from the dominant 578 00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:47,319 vendors. 579 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,779 And at the end, we have the basically 580 00:21:49,780 --> 00:21:52,209 Cisco, another two or three companies 581 00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:54,459 selling all these kind of things to all 582 00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:56,539 the cities all over the world because the 583 00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:59,109 others cannot compete in price. 584 00:21:59,110 --> 00:22:01,389 So there's lots to be done and 585 00:22:01,390 --> 00:22:03,519 lots of proactive things to do to 586 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:04,520 specify 587 00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:07,929 what do we want actually in the cities, 588 00:22:07,930 --> 00:22:09,999 if there's this kind of technology 589 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,459 need really need to fulfill a specific 590 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:13,460 mission. 591 00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:17,259 Like I will not have 592 00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:18,999 time to go through these airspace 593 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,069 regulation, public procurement, and 594 00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:23,589 also take a proactive 595 00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:26,369 step steps to create some 596 00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:28,779 data, comments and research 597 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:32,079 by citizens on things that we 598 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,999 actually should monitor the quality of 599 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,579 air, quality of water 600 00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:38,639 and quality 601 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,979 of life before 602 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:43,899 we open to the questions, because I want 603 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:45,249 to get questions and comments. 604 00:22:45,250 --> 00:22:47,559 What I wanted to say is, is as well, 605 00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:51,459 in cities with this increase, inequality 606 00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:53,889 is very, very important to be vigilant 607 00:22:53,890 --> 00:22:55,899 to the technologies and surveillance 608 00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:58,089 technologies deployed against 609 00:22:58,090 --> 00:23:01,299 those who actually need the most. 610 00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,429 In many countries 611 00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:06,669 and cities, there's coupons 612 00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:08,799 or aid provided 613 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,899 to those on the resource 614 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:11,900 and often. 615 00:23:13,790 --> 00:23:16,039 Their mechanisms to monitor and control 616 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,169 the poor, to monitor and control their 617 00:23:18,170 --> 00:23:20,619 movements, their consumption, and 618 00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:23,149 and also do the even 619 00:23:23,150 --> 00:23:25,819 harsher measures to exclude them. 620 00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:27,949 And that's happening a lot as 621 00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:30,079 well. In the end, with 622 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,269 the collaboration of organizations 623 00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:34,309 that like even like the United Nations, 624 00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:36,509 with the refugees coming to Europe. 625 00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:38,809 And that's that's 626 00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:41,989 it is like, oh, OK, we need to 627 00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:44,269 get them registered, biometrically 628 00:23:44,270 --> 00:23:46,339 get them together, give them a 629 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:48,589 card so they can only access 630 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:50,899 Internet via our services and then track 631 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,189 them, track them, track them. 632 00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:53,450 And I think that they 633 00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:56,809 like it is it 634 00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:59,029 is not only unethical, but it 635 00:23:59,030 --> 00:24:00,919 is, it is obviously because they are not 636 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,869 in a position of power and they they 637 00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:05,179 cannot act the way we can act 638 00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:07,269 and exercised their citizen 639 00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:09,859 citizenship because they don't have 640 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:12,269 in order to collaborate. 641 00:24:12,270 --> 00:24:14,539 And lastly, like, I 642 00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:16,939 just want to mention how we can move 643 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:19,489 next. There's many initiatives 644 00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:21,169 that you can take part of. 645 00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:23,390 I think that the way that the 646 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,629 Chaos Computer Club and similar 647 00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:29,179 computer clubs can get closer 648 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:31,369 to the local authorities if 649 00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:34,009 they are welcoming and get nasty 650 00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:35,929 to the local authorities, if they are 651 00:24:35,930 --> 00:24:38,319 not, if they are abusive and 652 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,879 deploy and increasing the surveillance 653 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,009 and scrutinize every public 654 00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:45,169 decision, that is that is being 655 00:24:45,170 --> 00:24:46,170 taken. This 656 00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:49,909 that that's the initiative in Barcelona, 657 00:24:49,910 --> 00:24:52,189 the Barcelona initiative 658 00:24:52,190 --> 00:24:54,589 of the technological 659 00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:57,019 sovereignty. And many cities are involved 660 00:24:57,020 --> 00:24:59,149 in that. And it needs really a lot of 661 00:24:59,150 --> 00:25:01,699 help, especially from technologists, 662 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:03,829 to create positive frames in order to 663 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:06,589 eradicate this pervasive surveillance. 664 00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:08,839 I am a member of the advisory 665 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,489 board of the M twenty five, the 666 00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:12,649 initiative towards a more democratic 667 00:25:12,650 --> 00:25:14,690 Europe. And we are setting up the 668 00:25:15,730 --> 00:25:17,989 technology task force to 669 00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:20,269 invite technologists to help us not 670 00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:22,159 only on these aspects, but in general 671 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,359 aspects to have a 672 00:25:24,530 --> 00:25:26,779 technology agenda consistent, 673 00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:28,669 consistent with democracy. 674 00:25:28,670 --> 00:25:31,069 And if you are in a position 675 00:25:31,070 --> 00:25:33,049 of power and inside a government and you 676 00:25:33,050 --> 00:25:34,729 find a contract of these very 677 00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:36,559 sophisticated constructs of surveillance 678 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,719 technology and likit to 679 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,329 your preferred submission platform 680 00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:43,489 and and make it available, 681 00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:45,439 because we need a repository and we need 682 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,509 to document all the practices of all 683 00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:49,099 the municipalities in these kind of 684 00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:50,839 things. And 685 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,279 yes. Or questions 686 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,389 or anyone 687 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:58,500 comments. 688 00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:11,599 Thank you, Renato. 689 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,979 If you have questions, please line up 690 00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:15,079 behind the microphones here 691 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,329 and just 692 00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:18,330 ask your question. 693 00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:21,430 Do we have questions from the Internet? 694 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,779 Seems not so OK, 695 00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:28,609 microphone number one. 696 00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:30,069 Hi, thanks for the great talk. 697 00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:33,939 We hear very often that, yeah, 698 00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:35,439 why should I care? And I have nothing to 699 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,629 hide. And I think almost of all 700 00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:39,729 of us here know that it's not 701 00:26:39,730 --> 00:26:42,039 a very productive way to react 702 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,419 to mass surveillance. 703 00:26:43,420 --> 00:26:45,429 What would be a suggestion to try to 704 00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:47,799 reach people that doesn't 705 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,809 know that how to try to convince, 706 00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:51,619 especially not technical people, people 707 00:26:51,620 --> 00:26:53,679 of STEM area, what would be your 708 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,749 suggestion to show them that this is a 709 00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,279 really important issue? 710 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,769 You know, for me is superglued question, 711 00:26:59,770 --> 00:27:01,270 because usually 712 00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:04,179 surveillance is linked to criminal 713 00:27:04,180 --> 00:27:06,309 activity and it is linked 714 00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:08,439 to OK, it is just for those 715 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,939 doing dodgy things. 716 00:27:09,940 --> 00:27:12,009 And the important thing of many 717 00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:14,019 of the data collection activities that 718 00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:16,299 take place in public spaces 719 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,629 is that it has nothing to do with 720 00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:21,549 the crime prevention. 721 00:27:21,550 --> 00:27:24,399 It has everything to do with marketing, 722 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,039 with commodification of our behaviors, 723 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,139 with us getting excluded from certain 724 00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:30,819 services, of getting more expensive 725 00:27:30,820 --> 00:27:32,979 services, and too 726 00:27:32,980 --> 00:27:35,199 often also with mechanisms of 727 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,219 social control. 728 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:38,379 So I think that we have to move 729 00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:40,569 away from surveillance and cameras 730 00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:43,119 just to activists and dissidents 731 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,589 and to monitor crime. 732 00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:47,739 And we have to make 733 00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:49,989 it personal and recognize that is part 734 00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:52,479 of a system, of a sophisticated 735 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,029 system of manipulation 736 00:27:55,030 --> 00:27:57,219 of human behavior that's making 737 00:27:57,220 --> 00:27:59,349 our lives not better, but actually more 738 00:27:59,350 --> 00:28:02,079 expensive and exclusion 739 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,420 and discrimination easier. 740 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,979 Thank you, Segolene Royal, Christopher, 741 00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:07,980 from the Internet. 742 00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:11,749 So the question is empowering 743 00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:13,819 locals would mean that they would need to 744 00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:16,430 see the importance of having no servants. 745 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,939 So what should you advise 746 00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:22,429 to people who are convinced 747 00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:24,230 that surveillance is a good thing? 748 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:27,589 I think 749 00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:29,959 that quantifying like making 750 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,949 very, very visible. 751 00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:33,169 And that's part of what I want to 752 00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:34,999 encourage others to join and collaborate 753 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,069 with, making visible how inefficient 754 00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:39,319 surveillance is and getting more 755 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,389 cases great about local failures 756 00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:43,459 of surveillance and how much 757 00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:44,989 money goes to waste. 758 00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:47,179 And also making visible 759 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:49,459 and visual what we gave away. 760 00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:51,739 When we spend millions in 761 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:53,779 assistance and surveillance system that 762 00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:54,619 didn't work. 763 00:28:54,620 --> 00:28:56,659 There was abuse for political purposes. 764 00:28:56,660 --> 00:28:59,059 And what we we are missing 765 00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:00,380 in the city, for example, 766 00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:05,009 childcare places or parks or libraries, 767 00:29:05,010 --> 00:29:07,459 and that that contrast 768 00:29:07,460 --> 00:29:09,529 on all the money that goes to waste and 769 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:11,269 all the money that could go for social 770 00:29:11,270 --> 00:29:13,420 good, I think is a good way forward. 771 00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:18,719 All right. 772 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,089 Oh, yeah, Michael. 773 00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:21,690 Number two, I 774 00:29:22,750 --> 00:29:25,329 guess more more of a comment, really, 775 00:29:25,330 --> 00:29:27,389 but that's OK. I guess space is 776 00:29:27,390 --> 00:29:28,559 open. 777 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,689 It just occurred to me that maybe to 778 00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:33,209 mention once upon a time in Mexico City, 779 00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:35,339 I was swooped upon by various 780 00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:36,839 police cars and they closed off the 781 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,549 block. I was walking down about 2:00 a.m. 782 00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:40,499 in the morning and came down and grabbed 783 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:42,479 my bag and insisted on explaining why I 784 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,489 had a Wi-Fi router, etc.. 785 00:29:44,490 --> 00:29:46,589 But this is the reason why they 786 00:29:46,590 --> 00:29:48,659 stopped me was because I had my hoodie up 787 00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:51,389 on my sweatshirt 788 00:29:51,390 --> 00:29:52,619 and they told me that they had been 789 00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:54,779 watching me on the cameras since 790 00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:56,339 four streets back. 791 00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:57,900 So maybe there's some 792 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,169 value in documenting or opening 793 00:30:01,170 --> 00:30:03,749 some kind of method of documenting 794 00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:06,089 these kinds of experiences so 795 00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:08,249 that we could show what 796 00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:10,559 some negative effects are 797 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,059 at times, because it was quite a 798 00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:13,889 traumatic experience, you know, and as 799 00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:16,139 you know, it's dangerous 800 00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:17,549 in those kinds of situations when you're 801 00:30:17,550 --> 00:30:19,469 alone in the street at night and you have 802 00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:22,079 lots of cops around, but 803 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,149 absolutely in 804 00:30:24,150 --> 00:30:25,759 Mexico was very dangerous. 805 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,049 That's it. Oh, my phone number five. 806 00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:29,050 Last question. 807 00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:33,119 Hello. 808 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,609 I'd like to know, is there a particular 809 00:30:35,610 --> 00:30:38,039 case that you could give 810 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,949 anecdotal stories that 811 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:42,899 surveillance was used for marketing 812 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:43,900 purposes? 813 00:30:44,910 --> 00:30:47,039 Well, I can mention some. 814 00:30:49,010 --> 00:30:50,010 I 815 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:53,079 I think that I mean, I actually I think 816 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,149 that the kind of surveillance that 817 00:30:55,150 --> 00:30:57,399 we have in our browsers 818 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,649 all the time that monitors our 819 00:30:59,650 --> 00:31:02,049 habits and our our consumer 820 00:31:02,050 --> 00:31:04,239 consumption patterns 821 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,859 in order to sell us the stuff. 822 00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:08,139 But I have a quick other example 823 00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:09,400 on free Wi-Fi. 824 00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:12,879 Usually when you have to like 825 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,529 when you are in a public space, in a 826 00:31:14,530 --> 00:31:16,839 public park and a company 827 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,119 agrees on give you of provide 828 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,309 you your CD, you small CD of 829 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:24,069 free Wi-Fi in public spaces, 830 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:26,169 there's no no no such thing as free 831 00:31:26,170 --> 00:31:28,029 Wi-Fi if it's provided by a company. 832 00:31:28,030 --> 00:31:30,249 And usually what it does is it captures 833 00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:32,349 the data of all the people attending a 834 00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:34,479 certain and monitored and quantified 835 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,379 the data of all the people using the 836 00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:38,319 service for for free. 837 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,419 And then they get it back 838 00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:42,579 in and sophisticated 839 00:31:42,580 --> 00:31:45,009 forms of advertising that 840 00:31:45,010 --> 00:31:47,259 benefit and then consumption 841 00:31:47,260 --> 00:31:48,949 of certain kind of products. 842 00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:51,309 Yeah, but 843 00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:53,649 some particular cases of 844 00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:56,379 surveillance used in that manner, 845 00:31:56,380 --> 00:31:58,359 surveillance deployed by the KDDI. 846 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,559 As civilians, it blows by this is usually 847 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,749 when this combination is a public private 848 00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:05,859 partnership, but I can tell 849 00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:07,979 you the case in Guatemala, 850 00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:09,599 you know, everything happens in 851 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,789 Guatemala. So this is not 852 00:32:11,790 --> 00:32:12,809 the worst case. 853 00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:15,299 But usually, like what the municipality 854 00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:17,759 was doing is they were selling 855 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,069 the data of high profile 856 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:22,469 people, movements that they captured 857 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:24,959 with a camera to blackmail politically. 858 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,359 So they will get they will get the 859 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,459 collector who went to 860 00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:31,799 which place at what time the video, 861 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,479 because all the all the cities covered 862 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:34,619 with cameras. 863 00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:36,390 And that was that was 864 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,499 done with the purpose of political 865 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:41,609 blackmail. Now, 866 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,919 unfortunately, time's up. 867 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,149 Are you still available? People have more 868 00:32:45,150 --> 00:32:46,189 questions. 869 00:32:46,190 --> 00:32:48,269 I can also find 870 00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,849 you essentially financial 871 00:32:50,850 --> 00:32:52,469 or are you still at a conference of 872 00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:53,470 people have more questions?