0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/399 Thanks! 1 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,249 This has something to do with espionage. 2 00:00:39,250 --> 00:00:41,379 We have a spy, and 3 00:00:41,380 --> 00:00:43,449 I would like I've given over the word 4 00:00:43,450 --> 00:00:45,879 from you to another former spy 5 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,070 because you also recently 6 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,209 decided to move to Berlin. 7 00:00:52,210 --> 00:00:53,210 And 8 00:00:54,430 --> 00:00:56,489 I would like to ask you 9 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:58,749 what see for the post 10 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:01,240 Snowden situation, Conquistadores, 11 00:01:05,290 --> 00:01:07,359 I think it's a very interesting time for 12 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,589 whistleblowers post Snowden. 13 00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:11,949 Obviously, he knew the risks 14 00:01:11,950 --> 00:01:13,539 he was running because the US has been 15 00:01:13,540 --> 00:01:14,919 waging a war against whistleblowers 16 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,109 anyway for the last six 17 00:01:17,110 --> 00:01:19,539 years. Obama is trying to prosecute 18 00:01:19,540 --> 00:01:21,610 or successfully prosecuted more 19 00:01:22,930 --> 00:01:23,919 whistleblowers coming out of the 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,269 intelligence agencies in the U.S. 21 00:01:25,270 --> 00:01:27,009 than all his predecessors put together 22 00:01:27,010 --> 00:01:28,539 since 1917. 23 00:01:28,540 --> 00:01:30,219 So if that's not a war, whistleblowers, I 24 00:01:30,220 --> 00:01:31,239 don't know what is. 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,309 And against that background at 26 00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:35,349 a standstill took the steps he took, 27 00:01:35,350 --> 00:01:37,539 which was to expose to the world 28 00:01:37,540 --> 00:01:39,519 this global panopticon surveillance 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,589 state. And I think Snowden is 30 00:01:41,590 --> 00:01:42,729 going to be even more difficult for 31 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:44,079 whistleblowers. So unless you are pretty 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,359 much an uber geek and 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,189 can really work your way around Internet 34 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:50,619 security, there's a very high likelihood 35 00:01:50,620 --> 00:01:51,939 that you will get caught now before you 36 00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:53,489 can actually make it to the media. 37 00:01:58,330 --> 00:01:59,859 I was going to invite Jamie to come up 38 00:01:59,860 --> 00:02:01,479 and read a letter from Snowden. 39 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,480 So it's fresh news, 40 00:02:03,670 --> 00:02:04,929 Jamie going to read it? 41 00:02:04,930 --> 00:02:06,249 Yeah, we want to have an artistic 42 00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:07,119 intervention. 43 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:08,529 OK, we're keeping them this country for 44 00:02:08,530 --> 00:02:09,530 the rest of the ride. 45 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,579 I'm not sure why I'm reading this, but 46 00:02:12,580 --> 00:02:14,019 I'll do it anyway. 47 00:02:14,020 --> 00:02:15,680 After that, we should sing a song. 48 00:02:17,140 --> 00:02:18,849 It's been one year. 49 00:02:18,850 --> 00:02:20,799 Technology has been a liberating force in 50 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,119 our lives. 51 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,159 It allows us to create and share the 52 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,229 experiences that make us human 53 00:02:26,230 --> 00:02:27,280 effortlessly. 54 00:02:28,660 --> 00:02:31,159 But in secret, our very own government, 55 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,979 one bound by the Constitution and its 56 00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:35,329 Bill of Rights as reverse engineered 57 00:02:35,330 --> 00:02:37,449 something beautiful into a tool of 58 00:02:37,450 --> 00:02:39,819 mass surveillance and oppression. 59 00:02:39,820 --> 00:02:41,739 We've come a long way, but there's more 60 00:02:41,740 --> 00:02:42,759 to be done. 61 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,039 Edward Snowden, American. 62 00:02:48,670 --> 00:02:50,739 And then you've got to have an email from 63 00:02:50,740 --> 00:02:52,300 your husband. 64 00:02:59,190 --> 00:03:01,979 I mean, people want to 65 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:03,779 say something about the people working on 66 00:03:03,780 --> 00:03:06,029 this in Berlin, why why 67 00:03:06,030 --> 00:03:06,539 Berlin? 68 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:08,519 Well, because we had people like Warhol 69 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,139 on 30 years ago talking about 70 00:03:10,140 --> 00:03:12,269 informational self-determination and to 71 00:03:12,270 --> 00:03:14,579 protect your data public, 72 00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:16,769 to keep the public data open 73 00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:18,569 and then private, private. 74 00:03:18,570 --> 00:03:19,899 And they made it to a culture. 75 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:21,959 And of course, the CCC was born. 76 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,059 And oddly enough, after that KGB 77 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:26,279 hack also twenty 78 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,759 five years ago, the CCC moved to Berlin 79 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,129 and then fomented this kind of culture 80 00:03:32,130 --> 00:03:34,289 here, which meant that 81 00:03:34,290 --> 00:03:36,419 when this did happen, when Laura 82 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:38,159 Poitras was working on her film, she 83 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,160 happened to be in Berlin 84 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:42,569 because she had less surveillance and 85 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:44,099 has on the streets. 86 00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:46,049 Jake used to come here and hang out with 87 00:03:46,050 --> 00:03:47,969 us at the telecom minister and Stonefish 88 00:03:47,970 --> 00:03:50,159 or at the Republica and to talk. 89 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,349 So it was it was common for them to move 90 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:53,429 and feel at ease in Berlin. 91 00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:55,319 That culture, that community was already 92 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,119 here. It didn't just happen overnight. 93 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,259 Just answer your question. 94 00:04:09,210 --> 00:04:11,459 This is what I'm calling you 95 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:13,009 about, a small problem. 96 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:16,828 And he has a problem, 97 00:04:16,829 --> 00:04:19,018 and this is spying on 98 00:04:19,019 --> 00:04:20,019 your phone. 99 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:23,749 You need to destroy this phone right now. 100 00:04:25,730 --> 00:04:27,499 You think you can? 101 00:04:34,330 --> 00:04:36,409 I think in terms of why 102 00:04:36,410 --> 00:04:37,699 a lot of whistleblowers are attracted to 103 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:39,469 Bellini's is precisely because of what we 104 00:04:39,470 --> 00:04:41,359 saw when we went to the Stasi Museum 105 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:42,360 earlier today. 106 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:45,319 It put back flash sort of flashback 107 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,179 memories for me because it was very 108 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:49,219 similar to what my life was like in even 109 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:52,009 in the early 1990s when I was recruited. 110 00:04:52,010 --> 00:04:53,959 So I think why people are attracted to 111 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,089 Berlin, because we have something called 112 00:04:56,090 --> 00:04:58,939 the Stasi Museum, not the Stasi HQ. 113 00:04:58,940 --> 00:05:00,409 And that is the simple answer that you 114 00:05:00,410 --> 00:05:01,789 got. You managed to get rid of it by 115 00:05:01,790 --> 00:05:02,790 people power. 116 00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:05,839 So actually, you have to pay more 117 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:07,929 attention to the back of the bus. 118 00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:09,229 And we are going to talk about Rosa 119 00:05:09,230 --> 00:05:10,759 Parks. You can't ignore the back of the 120 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:11,760 bus. 121 00:05:12,980 --> 00:05:15,199 This discussion of what makes Berlin 122 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,909 comfortable for all of these people that 123 00:05:16,910 --> 00:05:19,249 are dealing with surveillance often tends 124 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:20,899 to forget that there are actually people 125 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:22,639 that have been surveilled not by the 126 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,859 Stasi, but by the book in 127 00:05:24,860 --> 00:05:27,079 recent years for using terminology 128 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,239 like anti gentrification, 129 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,339 like that's still something you can 130 00:05:31,340 --> 00:05:33,409 be surveilled for and watch television 131 00:05:33,410 --> 00:05:35,779 telephonically surveilled in Germany 132 00:05:35,780 --> 00:05:37,459 knows and like the West German archives 133 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:38,359 have been opened up. 134 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,399 But people still do get surveilled and 135 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,439 charged with things like terrorism. 136 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,689 And that happens today in Germany. 137 00:05:44,690 --> 00:05:46,039 And we should not forget that because 138 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,289 this idea that a paradise of freedom, 139 00:05:48,290 --> 00:05:49,849 we cannot just talk about the Stasi and 140 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:51,380 ignore what's happened in Germany today. 141 00:05:53,380 --> 00:05:55,419 I'd like to ask you a question about 142 00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:57,669 Transparency International, about, 143 00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:59,649 you know, what does it mean that a Secret 144 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:02,019 Service brands itself 145 00:06:02,020 --> 00:06:03,759 on transparency, overseeing a shift in 146 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,649 the meaning of transparency in the post 147 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:07,179 Snowden world? 148 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:09,999 I think we see the big 149 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,189 transparency discourse, but many people 150 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:14,319 in power use this word 151 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,839 word. This is really en vogue. 152 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,029 But to me, like the main difference, 153 00:06:19,030 --> 00:06:20,799 first of all, transparency and privacy 154 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,229 are two sides of the same coin for me. 155 00:06:23,230 --> 00:06:24,819 And the difference, the criterion is the 156 00:06:24,820 --> 00:06:27,009 criterion of power, because those 157 00:06:27,010 --> 00:06:29,139 in power should be transparent and 158 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:31,329 those and less need the privacy. 159 00:06:31,330 --> 00:06:32,609 And I think that's very much what we saw 160 00:06:32,610 --> 00:06:34,059 already at the start. We wouldn't have an 161 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,219 idea when you saw the spirit 162 00:06:36,220 --> 00:06:37,220 of the law we have there. 163 00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:03,569 That was a film clip by Simon, close 164 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:05,869 to one part of his 165 00:07:05,870 --> 00:07:07,609 documentary project about the magical 166 00:07:07,610 --> 00:07:08,899 secrecy tour. 167 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:10,939 My name is Leslie. I was a producer of 168 00:07:10,940 --> 00:07:13,099 the tour. And I 169 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:14,929 wanted to tell you a bit about how the 170 00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:17,119 project worked and what we 171 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,699 discovered by making this 172 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:22,099 journey through Berlin on a bus. 173 00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:24,259 We basically were making a trip through 174 00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:26,689 Berlin with a group of people 175 00:07:26,690 --> 00:07:29,240 who were included hackers, 176 00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:32,659 artists, activists, 177 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:34,909 ex spies, a whistleblower, 178 00:07:34,910 --> 00:07:36,049 a lawyer. 179 00:07:36,050 --> 00:07:37,249 Some of the people that you saw on the 180 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:38,250 bus already, 181 00:07:39,590 --> 00:07:41,749 a number of people coming together, 182 00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:44,089 traveling through Berlin for a full 183 00:07:44,090 --> 00:07:46,459 nine hours, traveling 184 00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:48,529 into the history and present sort 185 00:07:48,530 --> 00:07:50,599 of world of surveillance culture and 186 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,249 having a discussion about it on the bus, 187 00:07:52,250 --> 00:07:54,499 trying to learn from one another what 188 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:56,839 is actually going on and 189 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,909 whether we believe that 190 00:07:58,910 --> 00:08:01,759 Berlin deserves this 191 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,039 right to be, say, the call itself, 192 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,499 say, the global capital 193 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:08,569 of processing and 194 00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:10,999 reacting to and resisting global 195 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000 surveillance. 196 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:15,319 So just to give you a sense, here 197 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,300 we are at Teufel SPAG, 198 00:08:18,350 --> 00:08:20,899 the former NSA listening station 199 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:23,179 with Nigel Dunklee, who was a passenger 200 00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:25,309 on our bus and gave the tour there with 201 00:08:25,310 --> 00:08:26,809 one other person. 202 00:08:26,810 --> 00:08:29,689 He's a guy who was a former 203 00:08:29,690 --> 00:08:31,999 spy for MI6. 204 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,069 He was working at Teufel during 205 00:08:34,070 --> 00:08:35,239 the Cold War. 206 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,428 And as he was 207 00:08:37,429 --> 00:08:39,079 telling us a bit about his work there 208 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,269 during the tour, because I was 209 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:43,489 standing next to a Russian 210 00:08:43,490 --> 00:08:45,559 guy and 211 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:47,749 a tech person and 212 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:48,750 a historian, 213 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,769 I was listening to what he was saying. 214 00:08:51,770 --> 00:08:54,259 But I was also because of the heightened 215 00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:56,269 awareness state we were in doing this 216 00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:58,339 tour on the first anniversary of the 217 00:08:58,340 --> 00:09:00,499 Snowden leaks, also paying 218 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:02,779 attention to these other things like 219 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:04,849 why is Nigel's hand 220 00:09:04,850 --> 00:09:06,409 roughly facing in the direction of 221 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:08,629 Moscow? And what about 222 00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:09,889 this graffiti? 223 00:09:09,890 --> 00:09:11,719 What does it tell us about the volatile 224 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,939 history of a place like this 225 00:09:13,940 --> 00:09:16,519 sector of Berlin and possibly therefore 226 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,679 also the volatile future of 227 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:19,759 this part of Berlin? 228 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,859 And what about that Radom that 229 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:23,929 radar dome up on the left? 230 00:09:23,930 --> 00:09:26,389 What was that Radom designed 231 00:09:26,390 --> 00:09:28,339 to conceal in terms of technology? 232 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:30,379 And which direction was that listening 233 00:09:30,380 --> 00:09:32,449 device usually pointed in when 234 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:33,829 it was working there? 235 00:09:33,830 --> 00:09:34,939 These are the kinds of things that 236 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:36,499 happened because of who we were on the 237 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:38,689 bus, the fact that we came together 238 00:09:38,690 --> 00:09:40,759 to experience the surveillance 239 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,039 culture of Berlin, but also 240 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,079 sort of listening to each other and maybe 241 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,150 widening our usual perspective of things. 242 00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:52,129 So I'd like to argue that Berlin 243 00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:54,529 has a history of surveillance 244 00:09:54,530 --> 00:09:56,599 that is more varied and 245 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,029 complex and 246 00:09:59,030 --> 00:10:00,889 interesting, I guess you could say in 247 00:10:00,890 --> 00:10:03,349 shorthand than that of any 248 00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:05,449 other city in the world 249 00:10:05,450 --> 00:10:06,599 today. 250 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,689 That makes it a very interesting place 251 00:10:08,690 --> 00:10:10,759 to consider what's 252 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,439 going on in the global surveillance 253 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,719 situation that we're in and also 254 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,879 possibly to react to it in different 255 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,019 ways. 256 00:10:18,020 --> 00:10:20,509 It's not just the history of 257 00:10:20,510 --> 00:10:22,129 of Berlin, but also the current 258 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:23,659 communities that are in Berlin and the 259 00:10:23,660 --> 00:10:24,859 current things that are going on in 260 00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:27,229 Berlin that make give it this special 261 00:10:27,230 --> 00:10:29,419 stature. So really, our mystery tour 262 00:10:29,420 --> 00:10:30,829 was about this intersection between the 263 00:10:30,830 --> 00:10:32,929 past and the present of the 264 00:10:32,930 --> 00:10:34,999 dozens. And I'm I wish I 265 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,099 could tell you if I had time, I 266 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:38,599 would tell you all of the places we 267 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,279 considered going on our tour because 268 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,809 there are dozens and dozens of 269 00:10:41,810 --> 00:10:44,539 fantastically rich possibilities. 270 00:10:44,540 --> 00:10:46,639 We had to limit it to a few that we could 271 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,739 actually do with 60 people on a bus and 272 00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:50,969 one nine hour period. 273 00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:52,819 And therefore, we ended up with this 274 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:55,219 selection of destinations 275 00:10:55,220 --> 00:10:56,869 which are in shorthand. 276 00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:58,309 But just to give you a sense of the 277 00:10:58,310 --> 00:11:00,349 inevitable visit to the Stasi Museum and 278 00:11:00,350 --> 00:11:02,509 Archives in former East Berlin, on the 279 00:11:02,510 --> 00:11:04,579 other end, the TV stands for Teufel Spag, 280 00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:07,039 where we just saw the former NSA 281 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,090 listening station. 282 00:11:09,620 --> 00:11:11,689 T stands for Tannen's 283 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:13,879 Mindiola offices where the bus departed 284 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,949 HQ Times two. 285 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:18,439 That was just a shorthand I put up for 286 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,779 capturing the fact that this was 287 00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:22,729 the address. It happens to be the offices 288 00:11:22,730 --> 00:11:24,649 both of Google and Dimler. 289 00:11:24,650 --> 00:11:25,879 So that's where we discussed some 290 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,490 corporate espionage and also corporate 291 00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:31,699 spying on on 292 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:32,809 corporate surveillance. 293 00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:35,059 We went up to the BND is not 294 00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:37,429 convinced Germany's foreign 295 00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:39,259 intelligence service down to the 296 00:11:39,260 --> 00:11:40,459 topography of terror, 297 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,729 former headquarters for the 298 00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:45,919 Gestapo and the SS Nazi German 299 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,019 times, and then passed the USA 300 00:11:48,020 --> 00:11:50,359 embassy, one of over 150 301 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,099 embassies in Berlin. 302 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:54,499 Of course, embassies 303 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:56,809 are there to protect their citizens, but 304 00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:59,059 are also legendary hotspots 305 00:11:59,060 --> 00:12:00,639 for espionage. So the. It was a natural 306 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,770 thing to include on the tour, 307 00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:05,109 so just to give you a sense of the 308 00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:06,220 of the map, 309 00:12:07,780 --> 00:12:09,999 we gave some 310 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,769 actually program tours in certain 311 00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:13,329 locations where we actually visited 312 00:12:13,330 --> 00:12:15,459 things very carefully with an expert 313 00:12:15,460 --> 00:12:17,559 usually actually every time with someone 314 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,459 on our actual bus the whole day. 315 00:12:19,460 --> 00:12:22,029 So we have a continuing conversation. 316 00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:24,039 But we also had a lot of loose time on 317 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,139 the bus itself to talk and process these 318 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:27,750 things and get into debates. 319 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,939 I just showed the clip from Simon 320 00:12:30,940 --> 00:12:32,709 this that was about being on the bus. 321 00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:34,509 So give you a flavor of that. 322 00:12:34,510 --> 00:12:37,119 The bus, I would say, 323 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,429 became another site in Berlin. 324 00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:40,959 Temporary? Yes. 325 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,149 Rolling, yes. 326 00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:44,919 But moving among these 327 00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:48,099 these static sites, it kind of created 328 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,329 another moment in the history of 329 00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:50,379 surveillance culture. 330 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:52,989 Hopefully what we were doing was bringing 331 00:12:52,990 --> 00:12:54,669 a higher level of consciousness of the 332 00:12:54,670 --> 00:12:57,399 surveillance history and present 333 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,379 surveillance situation of Berlin by our 334 00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:01,179 combined forces and carrying that 335 00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:02,499 consciousness around somehow. 336 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:04,569 So for what that was worth, 337 00:13:04,570 --> 00:13:06,699 it was filmed by someone closer. 338 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:08,769 And our mediator on 339 00:13:08,770 --> 00:13:11,019 the right was Christopher 340 00:13:11,020 --> 00:13:13,329 Gainsaying, who was the artistic director 341 00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:15,759 of transmedia, who, along with N.K. 342 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,159 project, were my co producers 343 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,409 for this event while 344 00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:22,539 we were on the bus going out toward 345 00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:23,469 the Stasi archives. 346 00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:25,269 Right at the beginning, Kristoffer said 347 00:13:25,270 --> 00:13:27,880 to everyone on the bus, OK, you guys, 348 00:13:29,290 --> 00:13:31,749 don't forget this paradox of seeing, 349 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:33,759 which is that when you look in one 350 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,709 direction, when you focus on something 351 00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:37,569 and you're trying to pay attention to it 352 00:13:37,570 --> 00:13:39,399 and learn from it, there's automatically 353 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,229 going to be something you're not seeing. 354 00:13:41,230 --> 00:13:43,299 There's going to be the inevitable blind 355 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:45,399 spots. And these aren't just the blind 356 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,859 spots from are the mechanical reality 357 00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:49,509 of our bus, but the conceptual blind 358 00:13:49,510 --> 00:13:50,949 spots, because I'm used to seeing 359 00:13:50,950 --> 00:13:51,969 something this way. 360 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:53,739 Someone else usually sees it this other 361 00:13:53,740 --> 00:13:56,049 way. And we all know that 362 00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:58,209 even as we're very sure that we're right, 363 00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:00,279 often the more certain we are, 364 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,019 the less likely we are to actually 365 00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:04,419 understand something more completely. 366 00:14:04,420 --> 00:14:06,369 So we also reminded ourselves that 367 00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:08,709 Snowden and his revelations 368 00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:11,139 revealed the colossal blind spots, 369 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:13,479 which are very important not only 370 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,819 for revealing the technological realities 371 00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:18,369 of our times and some of the geopolitical 372 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:20,499 realities of our times and other things, 373 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,569 but also for giving us 374 00:14:22,570 --> 00:14:24,309 the sense that we are now able to see 375 00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:26,319 things that we were blind to before. 376 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,419 But we also want it to be very careful 377 00:14:28,420 --> 00:14:30,669 not to let that be something we would 378 00:14:30,670 --> 00:14:32,799 take for granted, but also make an effort 379 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,899 on this tour to actually use the 380 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,539 Snowden leaks as a as a way to 381 00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:39,759 motivate ourselves to look anew 382 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,979 at Berlin, but also 383 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:43,809 to not get too comfortable with the idea 384 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:45,259 that we actually understood anything. 385 00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:47,589 So we're trying to look in a fresh 386 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:48,549 way. 387 00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:50,169 So I just with the little time that I 388 00:14:50,170 --> 00:14:52,269 have with you, I just wanted to mention 389 00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:54,549 two different ways of seeing that I 390 00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:56,079 think are valuable that we took away from 391 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,080 this tour. 392 00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:59,169 I think there's many, many more. 393 00:14:59,170 --> 00:15:00,519 And if I had an indefinite amount of 394 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,899 time, I would I would tell you about a 395 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:02,859 lot of others. 396 00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:04,389 But the first of the two that I will tell 397 00:15:04,390 --> 00:15:06,759 you about is captured 398 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,489 by my slide showing Nike 399 00:15:09,490 --> 00:15:11,949 hindsight glasses just to stand 400 00:15:11,950 --> 00:15:14,229 for the concept of seeing behind 401 00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:16,569 you, seeing historically looking 402 00:15:16,570 --> 00:15:17,889 into the past. 403 00:15:17,890 --> 00:15:20,049 So this is 404 00:15:20,050 --> 00:15:21,489 a really interesting thing about Berlin, 405 00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:23,169 that history doesn't function the same 406 00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:25,239 way there. I think that it does in other 407 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,699 places. And you'll see why in a minute. 408 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:29,739 But I just want to in order to kind of 409 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:31,419 activate the importance of Berlin's 410 00:15:31,420 --> 00:15:33,129 history, I just want to put a pin in a 411 00:15:33,130 --> 00:15:34,689 couple of moments. I think everybody 412 00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:36,489 already knows what these moments would 413 00:15:36,490 --> 00:15:39,009 be. You can probably name them already. 414 00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:40,359 But let me just put a pin in these 415 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,979 moments without elaborating and just 416 00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:44,079 wasn't there on this conceptual 417 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,079 map so that we can be aware of them. 418 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,969 I think maybe actually most people would 419 00:15:48,970 --> 00:15:50,539 say that the history of Berlin 420 00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:52,149 surveillance culture really begins in the 421 00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:53,919 20th century. 422 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,259 But I'm going to propose to you that 423 00:15:56,260 --> 00:15:58,209 it actually starts earlier than that, 424 00:15:58,210 --> 00:16:00,519 when Berlin was the seat of the 425 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,639 Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire, 426 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,739 and that there was a kind of 427 00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:08,049 authoritarian form of data 428 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:10,419 collection of mass population 429 00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:12,489 under the statesman 430 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:14,289 Otto von Bismarck. 431 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:16,419 And that this I don't 432 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:17,980 know what you would call it, say a 433 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,259 preemptively anti socialist 434 00:16:23,260 --> 00:16:26,259 socialist state 435 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:28,179 is actually maybe the first interesting 436 00:16:28,180 --> 00:16:30,219 place to look at the history of data 437 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:32,619 collection in Berlin. 438 00:16:32,620 --> 00:16:34,209 I'm going to flip forward here. 439 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:37,149 We're now in the Vontae conference house. 440 00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:39,849 This is in the von district of Berlin. 441 00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:42,099 This is a building where on January 442 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:44,679 20th, 1942, 443 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,049 Rhinehart Heydrich, then 444 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:49,299 director of the Reich Main 445 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:51,459 Security Office, convenes a meeting with 446 00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:53,559 14 other higher ups in the Nazi 447 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,749 government to coordinate 448 00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:58,299 and plan out extermination of Jews 449 00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:59,839 in Europe. 450 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,059 And note that 451 00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:03,949 this document, which I think now rates, 452 00:17:03,950 --> 00:17:06,679 is one of the major documents 453 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,618 concerning the data fixation of humanity, 454 00:17:09,619 --> 00:17:11,779 was supplied to meeting by 455 00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:13,338 one of its participants as Adolf 456 00:17:13,339 --> 00:17:15,889 Eichmann. And this details a number 457 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:18,049 of Jews in each territory that 458 00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:19,549 is either occupied and controlled by 459 00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:20,719 Germany or not. 460 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,999 You see the total of the bottom line to 461 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,309 TOMEN over 12 million. 462 00:17:25,310 --> 00:17:28,549 And so altogether over 11 million. 463 00:17:28,550 --> 00:17:31,279 I'm now slipping. Fast forward 464 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,959 to after the war. 465 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,029 We're now standing in East Berlin in 466 00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:37,099 the Stasi compound, which 467 00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:39,979 is the headquarters for all of the qaisi 468 00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:41,299 in East Germany. 469 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,579 And we're facing House 470 00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:45,769 Aints House one, 471 00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:48,709 which was among many other buildings 472 00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:50,449 there in the compound. 473 00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:52,609 This one is the office was the 474 00:17:52,610 --> 00:17:54,739 office of Milkha, 475 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:56,569 who was ahead of the Stasi for over 30 476 00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:57,529 years. 477 00:17:57,530 --> 00:17:59,419 I'm assuming I don't have to say a lot 478 00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:00,659 about the Stasi. 479 00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:03,169 Everybody probably has 480 00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:05,479 a pretty florid set of ideas 481 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:06,480 about it. 482 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,289 I'm going to move along to this image 483 00:18:09,290 --> 00:18:11,629 from 1985 484 00:18:11,630 --> 00:18:14,149 showing Teufel Spag NSA 485 00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:17,089 listening station in full throttle, 486 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:18,090 working 24 hours a day, 487 00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:21,979 as we heard an interesting talk about 488 00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:22,980 Felsberg last night. 489 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,639 No need to make any kind of sexual pun 490 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,889 about the three Radames to the right. 491 00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:30,619 I guess Freudians 492 00:18:30,620 --> 00:18:32,659 and feminists will go to town on that. 493 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:34,220 But I wanted to say 494 00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:37,489 1961 and actually this this 495 00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:38,719 is an interesting little detail. 496 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,089 It was in July of 1961 497 00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:43,279 that the site was discovered by allied 498 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,409 spies as an interesting place to listen 499 00:18:45,410 --> 00:18:47,479 out for what's going on in 500 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,609 the Eastern Bloc, or at least 501 00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:50,569 that's what they claim they're listening 502 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:51,570 to. 503 00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:53,899 So July 1961, 504 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,269 the the top of the hill of Teufel 505 00:18:56,270 --> 00:18:59,179 is is discovered as a promising, 506 00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:01,459 fruitful place to to listen out. 507 00:19:01,460 --> 00:19:03,649 One month later, the Berlin Wall goes 508 00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:05,839 up. August 1961 starts 509 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,189 on August 13. But this picture is 510 00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:08,780 obviously from a bit after that. 511 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,949 November nine, 1989, the wall 512 00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:14,029 comes down. 513 00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,219 Just want to quickly say that I think 514 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:18,319 this is a really important moment in the 515 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,089 history of the world, in the history of 516 00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:22,069 Berlin, but in particular with this topic 517 00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:23,539 about whether Berlin deserves to be 518 00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:25,879 considered a capital of reflection 519 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,829 on the significance of mass surveillance 520 00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:30,409 in the global digital era 521 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:32,539 and preparing responses 522 00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:35,029 to it, it is interesting to see 523 00:19:35,030 --> 00:19:37,669 that the wall comes down in 1989, 524 00:19:37,670 --> 00:19:40,009 really at the moment when the emergence 525 00:19:40,010 --> 00:19:41,869 of digital culture just starts to take 526 00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:44,239 off. So just as its healing 527 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,699 itself from this split and 528 00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:48,709 restitching itself together, Berlin is 529 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:50,929 also got in its in its postwar 530 00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:53,059 DNA, if you like, the 531 00:19:53,060 --> 00:19:54,679 beginning of the digital 532 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,760 era. 533 00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:59,749 So now we one year later, the 534 00:19:59,750 --> 00:20:01,849 former offices of Eric Milkha are 535 00:20:01,850 --> 00:20:03,949 now a museum which we visited. 536 00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:05,539 And one of the passengers on our bus 537 00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:08,269 asked, when was NSA going to be a museum, 538 00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:10,459 one of the head office of the NSA 539 00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:11,449 going to be a museum? 540 00:20:11,450 --> 00:20:13,880 And while it's not yet a museum, 541 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,659 it is true that Teufel, the former 542 00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:19,939 listening post, is a sort of museum 543 00:20:19,940 --> 00:20:21,679 like place where you can go and you can 544 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,779 paint there, you 545 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:25,879 can visit it. And it's privately 546 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,190 managed historic site 547 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,539 reunification I'm going to go for 548 00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:33,019 because I only have a few minutes left. 549 00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:34,849 And I want to get to a really interesting 550 00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:36,919 point. This is a 551 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,719 just a display of the German 552 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,309 constitution. 553 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:42,589 I think anybody looking at 554 00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:44,269 Berlin from the magical secrecy to her 555 00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:46,369 point of view can't help but notice, 556 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,149 first of all, how hard it was for 557 00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:52,249 Germany to gain these incredible points 558 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:54,469 that are made in its constitution and 559 00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:56,329 therefore how poignant it is to go and 560 00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:58,339 see in abbreviated form here in this 561 00:20:58,340 --> 00:20:59,689 public display. 562 00:20:59,690 --> 00:21:01,459 You can read the articles of the 563 00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:03,109 Constitution and see just how 564 00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:06,289 not healthy some of them are 565 00:21:06,290 --> 00:21:08,089 that we now realize, thanks to the 566 00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:10,579 Snowden leaks, particularly the one 567 00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:12,469 on the left there that looks really tiny, 568 00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:14,659 it sort of in the middle distance. 569 00:21:14,660 --> 00:21:15,660 But the smallest one, 570 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,739 Article 10, my personal favorite, 571 00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:22,459 which says something like privacy 572 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:24,799 of letters, 573 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,199 posts and telecommunications shall remain 574 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,379 inviolable with the word inviolable, 575 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:32,629 normally meaning not to be tampered 576 00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:34,249 with under any circumstances. 577 00:21:34,250 --> 00:21:35,250 So 578 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,449 one other way of saying that we really 579 00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:40,459 got to appreciate on our trip through 580 00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:42,649 Berlin is the 581 00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:44,179 artistic way of saying and this is a 582 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:46,339 drawing by Leonardo da Vinci of the human 583 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:48,679 eye and sight lines and peripheral 584 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,269 vision being kind of figured out for the 585 00:21:50,270 --> 00:21:51,270 first time. 586 00:21:51,860 --> 00:21:54,469 I want to propose to you that artists, 587 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:57,289 whether they're digital artists or or 588 00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:58,909 artists working in painting or any other 589 00:21:58,910 --> 00:21:59,969 art form. 590 00:21:59,970 --> 00:22:01,919 Can sometimes also supply incredible 591 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,289 insight that help us to see into blind 592 00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:07,259 spots in ways that historians 593 00:22:07,260 --> 00:22:10,049 and and more logical approaches 594 00:22:10,050 --> 00:22:12,209 to reality do 595 00:22:12,210 --> 00:22:14,549 not. So this incredibly valuable 596 00:22:14,550 --> 00:22:16,469 to supplement one way of looking with 597 00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:18,599 another for the purposes of 598 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,419 this Congress, with its title being 599 00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:22,949 a new dawn. 600 00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:24,779 I just wanted to go back to a painting 601 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,169 first exhibited in Berlin 200 years ago, 602 00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:29,699 still hanging there in the 603 00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:33,419 Alta National Gallery. 604 00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:35,640 And it's by Caspar 605 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,089 David Friedrich is called a Monk, 606 00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:40,439 the Monk by the Sea. 607 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,869 No one is really sure if it shows a monk, 608 00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:44,579 it could just be anybody. 609 00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:48,329 But I think post the Magical 610 00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:50,519 Secrecy Tour, he looks 611 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,829 a lot more like a hacker than anything 612 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:54,869 else. And that this is a really 613 00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:57,239 interesting representation 614 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,889 from today's point of view of the concept 615 00:22:58,890 --> 00:23:00,839 of a blind spot. This is just mist and 616 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,939 fog and clouds was maybe a hint 617 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:04,979 of transparency and enlightenment in the 618 00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:06,179 distance. 619 00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:08,369 So even even artwork that is 620 00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:10,769 from a digital era, I think can be seen 621 00:23:10,770 --> 00:23:13,049 completely anew when we think 622 00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:14,639 about it in these terms and show us 623 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,679 things that may suggest something about 624 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,799 our own priorities and our own 625 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,079 vulnerabilities, maybe 626 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,489 also provide some inspiration. 627 00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:25,619 And another area that's very rich 628 00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:27,029 in Berlin, of course, is the performing 629 00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:29,159 arts. I just want to note here 630 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,259 one very interesting 631 00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:34,829 theater, the Shobna Theater in 632 00:23:35,940 --> 00:23:38,339 in west part of Berlin. 633 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:43,259 This caption for 634 00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:45,329 this photo should probably be 635 00:23:45,330 --> 00:23:46,979 something's rotten in the surveillance 636 00:23:46,980 --> 00:23:48,929 state of Denmark, of Denmark. 637 00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:50,309 This is last year. 638 00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:52,469 The great, staggeringly 639 00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:55,019 great, I would say, actor portraying 640 00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:57,479 Hamlet at the shop. 641 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,759 And this is Shakespeare's great 642 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,799 tragedy about surveillance and the toll 643 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,349 it takes on 644 00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:05,459 the toll that surveillance and 645 00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:07,619 self-censorship take on a person and 646 00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:10,409 a family and a whole society. 647 00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:12,809 The existential and ontological crisis 648 00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:15,419 that results when someone is 649 00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:17,489 forced to ask, OK, I'm being 650 00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:19,679 watched. So should I change my behavior 651 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,869 and and pretend to be myself, just 652 00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:23,729 act myself and perform myself. 653 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:25,139 And if I do that for a while, what if I 654 00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:26,969 mistake that self for my real self? 655 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:28,049 And will I go crazy? 656 00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:30,149 And if I'm crazy, is life worth living? 657 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:32,099 And I really think that this is a great 658 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:34,349 Shakespeare play about the very problem. 659 00:24:34,350 --> 00:24:36,569 Also, this staging is extraordinary. 660 00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:38,459 This is a Thomas Ostermeier production 661 00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:39,879 with a lot of soil on the stage. 662 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,149 This is really Berlin production 663 00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:44,309 of Hamlet. The soil is very thick 664 00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:45,749 every time they try to put something in 665 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,789 it, like a corpse or a symbol of power, 666 00:24:47,790 --> 00:24:50,219 like the sword or the crown or just tears 667 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:52,039 of grief or what have you, 668 00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:54,869 it doesn't stay in there, just keeps 669 00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:56,819 popping up. It just keeps coming back on 670 00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:57,959 the surface of the stage. 671 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,789 They can't get anything to go into the 672 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:01,919 past. I think it's a really interesting 673 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,869 insight. This is a peripheral vision from 674 00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:06,479 these artists. What is really going on 675 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,999 in Berlin is the history 676 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,219 of this place can't quite 677 00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:13,169 stay historically comes up into the 678 00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:14,759 present. So all of these things we were 679 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,199 talking about earlier, from the 680 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,329 historical vision standpoint, 681 00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:21,149 they are very much vibrant and febrile 682 00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:23,549 and alive in Berlin in ways that 683 00:25:23,550 --> 00:25:25,709 make it possible for them to serve a 684 00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:27,209 wider understanding. 685 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:29,399 Just wanted to thank Lah's, also 686 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,989 this great actor for 687 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:33,250 serving as our. 688 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:36,769 For being in this photograph 689 00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:38,749 taken by a surveillance camera at the 690 00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:40,339 American Academy in Berlin, it we use 691 00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:42,559 this as a publicity image for the 692 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,629 magical secrecy tour on our 693 00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:46,429 tour. We have some great artists as well 694 00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:47,599 who widened our perspective. 695 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,249 One was Michelle Tehran. 696 00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:51,349 She she had an interceptor set 697 00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:52,579 up inside the bus. 698 00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:54,109 We had these monitors. 699 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:56,449 And what happened was 700 00:25:56,450 --> 00:25:59,149 she was able to capture some private 701 00:25:59,150 --> 00:26:01,309 CCTV footage so that as we're going 702 00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:03,979 around Berlin thinking about about 703 00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:05,389 government surveillance and corporate 704 00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:07,639 surveillance and and the rest, she 705 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,799 was giving us flickering images of 706 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,899 of private surveillance happening 707 00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:13,369 around us. Wherever we were moving with 708 00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:15,499 the bus at Teufel Square, we 709 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:17,569 have in the Radom a special 710 00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:19,789 performance during the tour beyond Peter 711 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:22,069 Sontag, the sound artist. 712 00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:24,139 He built a some special 713 00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:26,629 equipment which was able to capture 714 00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:28,309 some electrical activity in the 715 00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:29,659 stratosphere. 716 00:26:29,660 --> 00:26:31,549 So we sat and listened to this 717 00:26:31,550 --> 00:26:34,519 extraordinary crackling and wooshing, 718 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,529 really strange kind of music of the 719 00:26:36,530 --> 00:26:37,530 stratosphere, 720 00:26:38,690 --> 00:26:41,389 which also threw 721 00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:43,099 into perspective a completely different 722 00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:44,989 understanding of the history of the NSA 723 00:26:44,990 --> 00:26:47,119 listening post and how what normal 724 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,889 listening would have been like at this 725 00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:51,319 location. Not so long ago, 726 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,430 we ended our tour 727 00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:56,269 at Seabass Space Station, 728 00:26:56,270 --> 00:26:58,699 where we had an interesting discussion 729 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:00,769 about the future of transparency 730 00:27:00,770 --> 00:27:01,979 and privacy. 731 00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:04,459 I think the creative artistic environment 732 00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:06,439 that we were in helped to promote a 733 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,839 really interesting and 734 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,969 playful discussion, which was useful at 735 00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:12,319 that moment to sort of imagine different 736 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,429 possibilities. 737 00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:15,739 And it would have been a very different 738 00:27:15,740 --> 00:27:18,049 discussion had it taken place at, say, a 739 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:19,400 museum or someplace else. 740 00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:22,999 Next month at the transmedia 741 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,519 festival in Berlin, 742 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,619 we will be talking 743 00:27:27,620 --> 00:27:29,599 about the magical secrecy tour in more 744 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,999 detail. And there will be a pretty 745 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,649 interesting panel about it. 746 00:27:33,650 --> 00:27:35,029 I hope if you're interested, you'll come 747 00:27:35,030 --> 00:27:37,159 and see some of the further videos from 748 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,349 someone close about this this 749 00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:42,049 tour. I personally, 750 00:27:42,050 --> 00:27:44,509 I'm very interested in participating 751 00:27:44,510 --> 00:27:46,699 in order to to 752 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:48,859 talk about another thing that I think is 753 00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:50,089 very useful about this 754 00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:52,399 journey we made to 755 00:27:53,450 --> 00:27:55,879 apply to the current discussion 756 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,209 coming out of the Snowden 757 00:27:59,210 --> 00:28:00,889 debates and questions about how to 758 00:28:00,890 --> 00:28:01,789 respond. 759 00:28:01,790 --> 00:28:04,069 And that is I think we 760 00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:06,739 hear a lot use this term Panopticon, 761 00:28:06,740 --> 00:28:08,989 the global panopticon anymore. 762 00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:10,909 And he just used it in the video clip as 763 00:28:10,910 --> 00:28:13,309 well. And without all due respect 764 00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:16,489 to everyone who uses this phrase, 765 00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:18,799 it's really a problem because what's 766 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,319 going on today is categorically 767 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,969 different from a panopticon in ways that 768 00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:24,709 are actually, unfortunately, I think, a 769 00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:26,119 lot worse. 770 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:27,889 But I think if we don't get the right 771 00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:30,499 name for the for what's happening, 772 00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:32,549 we're going to be in trouble. 773 00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:34,519 So help us to actually address what's 774 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,809 really going on if we find the right 775 00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:38,029 language. And if I do have more than 776 00:28:38,030 --> 00:28:40,579 one minute, I will tell you, 777 00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:42,019 do I have more than one minute? 778 00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:44,179 OK, so I would love to tell you 779 00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:46,609 a juicy detail 780 00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:48,619 about the Panopticon idea, but I guess 781 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:50,629 we'll have to come to transmit reality in 782 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:52,969 Berlin. I don't have time here. 783 00:28:52,970 --> 00:28:54,410 Let me just wrap up by saying 784 00:28:55,610 --> 00:28:57,349 these are fast changing times. 785 00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:01,439 We're moving ahead quickly and it can be 786 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,259 heroic and feel good to have our focus 787 00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:06,359 firmly set on a particular goal 788 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,459 and to be working toward that as 789 00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:10,289 we think about what's the right thing to 790 00:29:10,290 --> 00:29:12,999 do next and where do we want to head. 791 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,669 But I think if we learn anything from the 792 00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:16,829 magical secrecy tour, 793 00:29:16,830 --> 00:29:18,539 which was sort of based on this very 794 00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:20,639 simple equation of Berlin 795 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,769 in its current and former and 796 00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:25,199 peripheral ways, plus 797 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,049 Snowden, what we learned is that 798 00:29:28,050 --> 00:29:30,329 it really does help to look 799 00:29:30,330 --> 00:29:33,119 at the past, to look 800 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,189 in corners of your field 801 00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:37,829 that you wouldn't consider necessarily 802 00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:40,409 initially to be useful and interesting 803 00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:42,659 and to try to see 804 00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:45,359 things in as 805 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,429 varied a way as possible 806 00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:49,619 in order to work through that 807 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:50,620 humongous 808 00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:54,689 blind spot separating the 809 00:29:54,690 --> 00:29:56,879 monk from the or 810 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,949 whoever that is on the on the coast 811 00:29:58,950 --> 00:30:01,229 of the the image by Caspar 812 00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:03,539 Friedrich to to 813 00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:05,070 the relationship between that and see 814 00:30:06,270 --> 00:30:08,549 the clear, open sky that 815 00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:11,069 apparently is is somewhere out there 816 00:30:11,070 --> 00:30:12,510 beyond. Thank you.