0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/406 Thanks! 1 00:00:10,690 --> 00:00:12,549 For those of you who don't know me, yes, 2 00:00:12,550 --> 00:00:15,310 I'm Julia, and yes, I am a politician. 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,339 I was elected earlier this year 4 00:00:19,340 --> 00:00:21,469 for the German Pirate Party to the 5 00:00:21,470 --> 00:00:23,629 European Parliament, and it's really 6 00:00:23,630 --> 00:00:26,179 a great honor to be able to speak here, 7 00:00:26,180 --> 00:00:28,039 especially because I know that my 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,929 profession does not always have the 9 00:00:29,930 --> 00:00:32,029 greatest reputation among 10 00:00:32,030 --> 00:00:33,229 hackers. 11 00:00:33,230 --> 00:00:35,779 I think there is good reason for that. 12 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:38,029 Our democratic institutions all 13 00:00:38,030 --> 00:00:40,579 across the world are facing 14 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:42,409 a legitimacy crisis. 15 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:44,599 And I have great respect for everybody 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,699 who chooses to try to bring about 17 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:49,519 societal change through direct, 18 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,379 uh, through direct action, through 19 00:00:51,380 --> 00:00:53,569 hacking. But I'm hoping that with 20 00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:55,759 my talk, I can show you that at least 21 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,639 in some areas like copyright, there 22 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,289 really is good reason and there is hope 23 00:01:00,290 --> 00:01:02,359 to try to engage in the more 24 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,609 traditional political institutions 25 00:01:04,610 --> 00:01:06,919 like parliaments and really get involved 26 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,259 in the political process to try 27 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:10,670 and change things for the better. 28 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:14,419 I'm not going to talk a lot 29 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:17,179 about file sharing and about the reasons 30 00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:19,159 that the Pirate Party came about and 31 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,259 what's wrong with copyright 32 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:23,329 in general. I think a lot of you have 33 00:01:23,330 --> 00:01:25,729 heard quite a lot about this. 34 00:01:25,730 --> 00:01:27,469 What I really want to focus on in this 35 00:01:27,470 --> 00:01:29,809 talk is what in particular is wrong 36 00:01:29,810 --> 00:01:31,969 with the EU copyright system that we 37 00:01:31,970 --> 00:01:32,970 have today, 38 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,469 because you see there 39 00:01:36,470 --> 00:01:38,779 are two legal traditions 40 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:41,059 underlying the European copyright. 41 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:43,459 On the one hand, we have the 42 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:46,039 Anglo American tradition of copyright, 43 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,349 which includes the fair 44 00:01:48,350 --> 00:01:50,959 use clause, which means that 45 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,729 the exceptions from copyright are 46 00:01:52,730 --> 00:01:55,279 interpreted by judges 47 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,529 who are weighing the protection of rights 48 00:01:57,530 --> 00:01:59,209 holders against the interests of the 49 00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:01,489 public in court rulings. 50 00:02:01,490 --> 00:02:03,439 There's the other legal tradition 51 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,539 underlying the EU copyright system, which 52 00:02:05,540 --> 00:02:08,299 is the continental European tradition 53 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:10,609 of what auteur or 54 00:02:10,610 --> 00:02:13,129 authors rights in this system. 55 00:02:13,130 --> 00:02:15,319 The authors of cultural works 56 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,479 have certain inalienable rights that 57 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,579 they cannot sell to right Holder 58 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:22,249 and importantly, the exceptions 59 00:02:22,250 --> 00:02:23,329 to copyright. 60 00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:25,309 The interests of the public are written 61 00:02:25,310 --> 00:02:27,080 into the law, and 62 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,349 both of these systems have some problems 63 00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:31,309 and some critics are. 64 00:02:31,310 --> 00:02:33,709 Critics of the American value system 65 00:02:33,710 --> 00:02:35,869 argue that it is 66 00:02:35,870 --> 00:02:38,179 kind of intransparent because when 67 00:02:38,180 --> 00:02:40,429 you are using a cultural work, sometimes 68 00:02:40,430 --> 00:02:42,259 you cannot be exactly sure whether what 69 00:02:42,260 --> 00:02:44,629 you are doing is actually lawful 70 00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:46,759 or not. And some people say that 71 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,739 it's biased in favor of people who can 72 00:02:48,740 --> 00:02:50,899 afford to go to the courts 73 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:53,119 if there really is a disagreement about 74 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,729 the interpretation of free use. 75 00:02:55,730 --> 00:02:56,959 On the other hand. 76 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,759 The problem with the continental system 77 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,729 is that it is quite inflexible because 78 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:03,619 every time and you use a new 79 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,899 technological development comes about, 80 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:07,579 you actually have to go and change the 81 00:03:07,580 --> 00:03:09,859 law if you want to allow this 82 00:03:09,860 --> 00:03:11,929 type of use without 83 00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:13,549 a copyright infringement. 84 00:03:13,550 --> 00:03:15,829 So everything new that every 85 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:17,659 new way of dealing with culture is 86 00:03:17,660 --> 00:03:19,699 forbidden by default and you actually 87 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:21,919 have to change the law to make 88 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,469 it legal. 89 00:03:24,470 --> 00:03:26,839 So what the European Union 90 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,059 has done in its copyright directive 91 00:03:29,060 --> 00:03:31,519 of 2001 is really to 92 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,859 create the worst of both worlds, to take 93 00:03:33,860 --> 00:03:36,169 the bad parts of both of these systems. 94 00:03:37,190 --> 00:03:38,329 In the European Union. 95 00:03:38,330 --> 00:03:40,519 We have a system that is 96 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,709 inflexible because we don't have a fair 97 00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:44,779 use exception that would allow us to 98 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:47,269 adapt quickly to new technological 99 00:03:47,270 --> 00:03:49,579 developments and new types of using 100 00:03:49,580 --> 00:03:50,580 culture. 101 00:03:51,590 --> 00:03:54,289 But it is also intransparent because 102 00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:56,449 the European Union has managed to 103 00:03:56,450 --> 00:03:58,609 only harmonize the interests of the 104 00:03:58,610 --> 00:04:00,679 right holders and to create minimum 105 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,349 standards for the protection of copyright 106 00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:05,059 in every European country. 107 00:04:05,060 --> 00:04:07,789 But they have failed to harmonize 108 00:04:07,790 --> 00:04:09,469 the rights of the public, and they have 109 00:04:09,470 --> 00:04:12,019 not created minimum standards 110 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:14,059 of users rights. 111 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:16,129 Instead, what you have in the European 112 00:04:16,130 --> 00:04:18,409 Copyright Directive is a list of 20 113 00:04:18,410 --> 00:04:20,659 optional exceptions to copyright. 114 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:23,359 So, for example, for educational 115 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,489 use or for citation, for 116 00:04:25,490 --> 00:04:27,619 parody, every single member state 117 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:29,509 gets to decide themselves whether they 118 00:04:29,510 --> 00:04:32,029 actually want to implement this 119 00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:34,219 copyright exception into that national 120 00:04:34,220 --> 00:04:35,269 law or not. 121 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:37,639 So if you can calculate, like Samari 122 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,039 McCarthy has done in a paper, 123 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,749 there are actually over two million 124 00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:43,909 different ways of combining these 20 125 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:45,349 optional exceptions. 126 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:47,419 And therefore it's extremely unlikely 127 00:04:47,420 --> 00:04:49,279 to find two European countries that 128 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,349 actually have exactly the same copyright 129 00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:53,839 rules. And now if you're dealing with 130 00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:57,259 cultural content on the Internet and 131 00:04:57,260 --> 00:04:59,479 trying to communicate across borders or 132 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,279 even offer a service in more than one 133 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:03,409 country, it's you really have to 134 00:05:03,410 --> 00:05:06,139 be a copyright lawyer to understand 135 00:05:06,140 --> 00:05:08,059 what is actually legal and what is not. 136 00:05:09,380 --> 00:05:11,539 All of this sounds a little bit abstract. 137 00:05:11,540 --> 00:05:13,729 So I want to give you just five 138 00:05:13,730 --> 00:05:16,159 examples of how this. 139 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,679 System is really to the detriment 140 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,299 of regular people who are dealing with 141 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:21,500 culture on the Internet. 142 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,489 The first is the case 143 00:05:25,490 --> 00:05:28,159 of an exception to copyright 144 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,349 called freedom of Panorama that 145 00:05:30,350 --> 00:05:32,869 has not been implemented 146 00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:35,359 in the majority of European states. 147 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,429 Freedom of Panorama simply means that 148 00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:39,589 if you are standing in a public place and 149 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:41,659 taking a picture of a building, you can 150 00:05:41,660 --> 00:05:44,179 do anything with this picture, regardless 151 00:05:44,180 --> 00:05:46,339 of the copyright of the architect 152 00:05:46,340 --> 00:05:48,249 who actually built this place. 153 00:05:48,250 --> 00:05:50,269 A lot of European countries actually the 154 00:05:50,270 --> 00:05:52,609 majority don't have this copyright 155 00:05:52,610 --> 00:05:54,589 exception, which means that if you travel 156 00:05:54,590 --> 00:05:56,509 to France, you take a picture of the 157 00:05:56,510 --> 00:05:57,919 European Parliament building in 158 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,899 Strasbourg and want to put it on the 159 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:02,359 Internet. You actually need permission 160 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:03,360 for that. 161 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:06,739 So this is clearly kind 162 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:08,659 of counterintuitive because the 163 00:06:08,660 --> 00:06:10,849 parliament should be a public building 164 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:13,039 that is everybody is able 165 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,689 to see and to take pictures off. 166 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:16,999 And so Wikipedia actually 167 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,009 approached the parliament administration 168 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:20,719 and said, hey, we want to show the people 169 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,309 what the parliament looks like. 170 00:06:22,310 --> 00:06:23,689 Can we use a picture? 171 00:06:23,690 --> 00:06:25,789 And the parliament administration 172 00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:27,469 said, sure. 173 00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:29,599 The problem is it turned out that the 174 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,189 European Parliament administration 175 00:06:31,190 --> 00:06:33,589 actually didn't have the rights to 176 00:06:33,590 --> 00:06:34,590 allow this. 177 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:37,980 So. 178 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,439 So when they found this out, what 179 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,599 Wikipedia did was this. 180 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,789 This is one of the pictures used 181 00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:48,859 in the article about the parliament 182 00:06:48,860 --> 00:06:51,019 and what you can see here are the flags 183 00:06:51,020 --> 00:06:53,479 in front of the parliament and 184 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,219 the parliament building just happens to 185 00:06:55,220 --> 00:06:57,379 be in the background, but 186 00:06:57,380 --> 00:06:59,419 it's not the object of this picture. 187 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:01,639 So therefore, it does not violate 188 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,590 the copyright of the architect. 189 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:13,059 Whether this interpretation would 190 00:07:13,060 --> 00:07:15,249 actually hold up in court 191 00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:17,379 is kind of open to question, 192 00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:19,449 but the thing is, 193 00:07:19,450 --> 00:07:21,759 it's extremely unlikely that anybody 194 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,379 is ever actually going to take this to 195 00:07:23,380 --> 00:07:25,749 court. And this is an example 196 00:07:25,750 --> 00:07:27,639 that really shows kind of the core 197 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,529 problem that we have with copyright in 198 00:07:29,530 --> 00:07:31,629 the EU, that the system is 199 00:07:31,630 --> 00:07:34,239 so complicated and so archaic 200 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,339 that everybody from 201 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:37,989 people to companies to public 202 00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:40,029 institutions like the European Parliament 203 00:07:40,030 --> 00:07:42,189 itself, everybody is violating 204 00:07:42,190 --> 00:07:44,319 copyright on a regular basis, 205 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,269 often without even knowing it. 206 00:07:46,270 --> 00:07:48,009 And the only reason that the system 207 00:07:48,010 --> 00:07:49,689 hasn't collapsed is that the vast 208 00:07:49,690 --> 00:07:52,569 majority of creators actually don't 209 00:07:52,570 --> 00:07:54,549 enforce their rights. 210 00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:55,550 So. 211 00:07:56,870 --> 00:07:58,759 This is just one example of such a 212 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,859 copyright exception that is often not 213 00:08:00,860 --> 00:08:03,319 implemented, and you would think 214 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,599 that you have a better situation 215 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,729 with the copyright exception that exists 216 00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:09,289 more or less everywhere, like the 217 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:10,639 exception for parody. 218 00:08:11,750 --> 00:08:13,609 Most countries have some sort of 219 00:08:13,610 --> 00:08:15,499 copyright exception to parody because 220 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:17,659 it's really important for free speech 221 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:19,849 to be able to show, for example, a public 222 00:08:19,850 --> 00:08:21,440 figure and make fun of them. 223 00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:25,459 This is a picture that I used when 224 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:27,349 the new digital commissioner, Günter 225 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:29,449 Etlinger, was speaking in 226 00:08:29,450 --> 00:08:30,709 front of the parliament. 227 00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:32,779 And this was a hearing 228 00:08:32,780 --> 00:08:33,829 that was live streamed. 229 00:08:33,830 --> 00:08:35,779 And I was using this on social media to 230 00:08:35,780 --> 00:08:37,849 draw attention to it and to get 231 00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:40,219 people to suggest good questions 232 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:42,649 to him. So in this picture, 233 00:08:42,650 --> 00:08:45,019 I'm making a reference, of course, 234 00:08:45,020 --> 00:08:47,179 to the slogan Winter is coming 235 00:08:47,180 --> 00:08:48,619 from Game of Thrones. 236 00:08:48,620 --> 00:08:50,869 And depending on which European 237 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:52,459 country you are, there are different 238 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:55,099 definitions of what parody actually is. 239 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:57,529 So in some member states, they argue 240 00:08:57,530 --> 00:08:59,899 that a parody 241 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,149 is only exempt from copyright 242 00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:04,339 if the copyright holder 243 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:05,809 is actually the person that you are 244 00:09:05,810 --> 00:09:07,009 making fun of. 245 00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:09,259 So here I am parodying Gunter 246 00:09:09,260 --> 00:09:11,389 Etinger, but I'm using material from 247 00:09:11,390 --> 00:09:13,549 the HBO show Game of Thrones 248 00:09:13,550 --> 00:09:15,619 and therefore it would not be covered by 249 00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:17,779 the copyright exception for parody in 250 00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:20,179 some countries, but in others it is. 251 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:22,219 So if I share this on my Twitter account 252 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:23,629 and people from different European 253 00:09:23,630 --> 00:09:25,729 countries are sharing it, which would 254 00:09:25,730 --> 00:09:27,799 be my ideal scenario for a 255 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,959 European public, some of them would be 256 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,309 violating copyright laws. 257 00:09:31,310 --> 00:09:32,679 Others of them wouldn't. 258 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,640 Sorry to everybody who retweeted this. 259 00:09:38,780 --> 00:09:40,879 Another area where 260 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,549 the European system is particularly 261 00:09:43,550 --> 00:09:45,349 vested against the interests of the 262 00:09:45,350 --> 00:09:47,569 public is the copyright terms, as 263 00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:49,609 you can see on this map. 264 00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:51,799 This is not a problem exclusive to 265 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,119 the EU at all. 266 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,529 Pretty much all over the world. 267 00:09:54,530 --> 00:09:56,599 We have relatively long copyright 268 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,189 terms in the EU. 269 00:09:58,190 --> 00:10:00,769 It was lengthened to 70 years after death 270 00:10:00,770 --> 00:10:02,899 back in the 90s before it was 50 271 00:10:02,900 --> 00:10:03,900 years after death. 272 00:10:05,150 --> 00:10:06,979 But once again, the European Union has 273 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:09,109 only set a minimum standard, but not 274 00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:11,299 a maximum. So the rights of the right 275 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:12,949 holders are protected. 276 00:10:12,950 --> 00:10:14,719 The rights of the public to have access 277 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,249 to information are not so. 278 00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:18,439 One country like Spain can 279 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,049 simply choose to have an even higher 280 00:10:21,050 --> 00:10:22,249 copyright term length. 281 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,599 This problem is particularly 282 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,759 difficult because we are trying to get 283 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,609 kind of a European common cultural 284 00:10:31,610 --> 00:10:33,739 heritage and have institutions 285 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:35,989 that are actively working on this. 286 00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:38,509 So take, for example, Europeana, 287 00:10:38,510 --> 00:10:40,699 which is an online archive of 288 00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:43,249 digitized cultural heritage 289 00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:44,869 from the European Union. 290 00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:47,449 And when you look at the material 291 00:10:47,450 --> 00:10:49,159 that they have digitized and put in their 292 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,079 archive, you see something that is 293 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,179 referred to as the 20th century black 294 00:10:53,180 --> 00:10:55,369 hole, which means that there 295 00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:57,529 are significantly less 296 00:10:57,530 --> 00:11:00,049 works from the mid to late 297 00:11:00,050 --> 00:11:02,359 20th century than before and 298 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,679 after it. 299 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,779 This is because with pretty 300 00:11:05,780 --> 00:11:08,119 old works, you can be relatively sure 301 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,589 that they are in the public domain and 302 00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:11,089 then you can digitize them. 303 00:11:11,090 --> 00:11:13,309 And with the new works, you usually know 304 00:11:13,310 --> 00:11:15,289 who made them. And it's relatively easy 305 00:11:15,290 --> 00:11:17,389 to contact the rights holders and to 306 00:11:17,390 --> 00:11:19,579 come to some sort of agreement with them. 307 00:11:19,580 --> 00:11:21,889 But in the space between, 308 00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:24,289 there is a huge number of works 309 00:11:24,290 --> 00:11:25,789 that are no longer commercially 310 00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:26,699 exploited. 311 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:28,549 There is no way of reaching the rights 312 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:30,739 holder and actually paying them for using 313 00:11:30,740 --> 00:11:31,849 this work. 314 00:11:31,850 --> 00:11:33,539 But it's still covered by copyright. 315 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:36,229 So a public institution cannot simply 316 00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:37,819 use these works. 317 00:11:37,820 --> 00:11:39,889 And this problem is 318 00:11:39,890 --> 00:11:42,109 once again exacerbated by the 319 00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:44,809 complicated system that we have in the EU 320 00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:47,029 because every single member state still 321 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:49,579 insists on having their own copyright 322 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:51,919 terms and having own specific 323 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:52,920 rules for that. 324 00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:56,269 So what you see here is about 325 00:11:56,270 --> 00:11:58,429 one fourth of the decision 326 00:11:58,430 --> 00:12:00,829 tree that you have to go to 327 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:03,109 to determine whether a European 328 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:05,489 work is in the public domain or not. 329 00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:06,490 Um. 330 00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:09,359 This is clearly not something 331 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,909 that an average person can can navigate 332 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:13,979 through, and it's not 333 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:16,259 enough in a lot of cases to know 334 00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:18,119 who the right order is and to know when 335 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,409 they died. 336 00:12:19,410 --> 00:12:21,479 In some countries like Romania, 337 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,729 you have to know how old the children 338 00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:25,889 of the author were at the time of his or 339 00:12:25,890 --> 00:12:26,890 her death. 340 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,289 You also have to know whether 341 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:33,569 the author died in the first or Second 342 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:35,519 World War for the country of France 343 00:12:36,930 --> 00:12:39,059 to be able to to find out how long 344 00:12:39,060 --> 00:12:40,110 the copyright term is. 345 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:45,629 So another example 346 00:12:45,630 --> 00:12:47,459 where the European Union is not 347 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:50,309 protecting the rights of the public, 348 00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:52,409 in 2009, the Charter 349 00:12:52,410 --> 00:12:54,629 of Fundamental Rights of the EU came into 350 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:56,549 force and one of those fundamental rights 351 00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:58,799 is access to information. 352 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,899 However, the European Union has 353 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:03,299 so far made no attempts 354 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:05,549 to actually enforce this against 355 00:13:05,550 --> 00:13:07,649 our member states. So, for example, 356 00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:09,899 there is no requirement to actually 357 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:12,059 put official works that are created by 358 00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:14,849 the state into the public domain. 359 00:13:14,850 --> 00:13:16,739 This is different in the US. 360 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:18,869 The picture you can see here is called 361 00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:20,939 Earthrise is and is from an 362 00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:23,309 mission. And because Naza 363 00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:25,589 is a public agency in the United 364 00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:27,599 States, this kind of work automatically 365 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,249 enters the public domain. 366 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:30,959 There's no copyright on it. 367 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,699 Everybody can use it. 368 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:34,589 And I think that's probably also one of 369 00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:36,449 the reasons why this picture has become 370 00:13:36,450 --> 00:13:38,609 such an iconic picture of our 371 00:13:38,610 --> 00:13:39,869 common cultural history. 372 00:13:41,850 --> 00:13:44,009 In my home country of Germany, 373 00:13:44,010 --> 00:13:46,229 there has been some analysis of 374 00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:48,599 whether the country actually 375 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,549 benefits commercially from having this 376 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:51,959 copyright. 377 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,729 And it turns out that it doesn't. 378 00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:56,069 Actually, the bureaucracy of licensing 379 00:13:56,070 --> 00:13:58,499 such public works is 380 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:00,599 as big as kind of the revenue that they 381 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,589 get from it. 382 00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:04,019 And in a lot of cases, 383 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:06,539 it's simply one public agency licensing 384 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:08,669 pictures or other works to another 385 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:09,659 agency. 386 00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:11,909 And it's just creates kind 387 00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:14,129 of a bureaucratic overhead 388 00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:15,929 and you're shuffling public money from 389 00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:17,819 one pocket to another. 390 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:19,739 So if there is no 391 00:14:20,850 --> 00:14:23,279 financial benefit of having 392 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,379 this copyright on 393 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:27,809 public works, there may be other reasons. 394 00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:30,209 And one of the speakers 395 00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:32,429 here, Stephane Valmir, recently 396 00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:34,649 put a Freedom of Information request to 397 00:14:34,650 --> 00:14:36,839 the German government requesting 398 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,999 access to an internal document 399 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,489 where the government 400 00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:43,949 was asking the lawyers of the ministry 401 00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:45,989 to determine whether a certain proposal 402 00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:48,749 for a law would be constitutional or not. 403 00:14:48,750 --> 00:14:50,819 And because the lawyer 404 00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:52,799 said it's probably unconstitutional, 405 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,359 actually having this public is quite 406 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,129 embarrassing for the government. 407 00:14:56,130 --> 00:14:57,569 So when he made this Freedom of 408 00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:59,849 Information request, they were required 409 00:14:59,850 --> 00:15:02,219 by law to give him this information. 410 00:15:02,220 --> 00:15:04,019 But they also said that he cannot put it 411 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:06,209 on the line for everybody to see 412 00:15:06,210 --> 00:15:08,069 because that would violate the copyright 413 00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:09,420 of the lawyers who wrote it. 414 00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:14,099 I don't think this is a case of securing 415 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,379 an artist's livelihood or anything 416 00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:18,269 like this. I think the lawyers are very 417 00:15:18,270 --> 00:15:20,399 well compensated for the work by 418 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,049 the state in the first place. 419 00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:23,050 So clearly, this is 420 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,519 an example of the state trying 421 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,949 to exercise control over 422 00:15:28,950 --> 00:15:31,289 uncomfortable information and using 423 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:33,479 copyright as a censorship tool. 424 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,939 I think in the end, Stephane won 425 00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:37,769 in court and the court decided that he 426 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:40,049 had every right to publish this document 427 00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:41,369 online. 428 00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:43,439 But still, if we didn't have 429 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,149 copyright on official works, we wouldn't 430 00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:46,769 have this problem in the first place. 431 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:51,229 Just one last example of blatant 432 00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:53,659 copyright infringement on this slide, 433 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,039 even though the Copyright Directive 434 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,960 of 2001 claims to be 435 00:16:01,220 --> 00:16:03,529 bringing copyright to the digital age, 436 00:16:03,530 --> 00:16:04,789 harmonizing everything 437 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,359 to make it possible to exchange cultural 438 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,939 online, it actually has nothing 439 00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:13,009 dealing with kind of modern forms 440 00:16:13,010 --> 00:16:15,169 of using creative content 441 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:16,219 on the Internet. 442 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:18,979 So if you use a reaction give from 443 00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:21,259 a public, from a popular 444 00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:22,699 movie or something like that, you're 445 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:24,829 committing a copyright infringement, 446 00:16:24,830 --> 00:16:26,629 even though it's really hard to believe 447 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:28,789 that there is any economic 448 00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:30,859 damage to the actual authoress because 449 00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:32,929 nobody decides to no longer 450 00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:34,579 go to the movie because they saw a 451 00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:36,829 reaction gif and now they feel like they 452 00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:38,359 know the gist of the movie. 453 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,299 And on the contrary, actually, 454 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,029 the sports industry in particular 455 00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:45,889 has made it a business model to build 456 00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:48,409 trackers and look for gifts from 457 00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:50,419 from football games and then to 458 00:16:50,420 --> 00:16:52,639 systematically find their friends. 459 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,819 So the reason that 460 00:16:55,820 --> 00:16:57,889 we haven't seen a change in this area is 461 00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:59,839 probably more that it's beneficial to the 462 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,359 rights holders to be able to criminalize 463 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,608 people then that it's actually kind 464 00:17:04,609 --> 00:17:06,649 of that there is a good reason to give 465 00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:07,759 creators this right. 466 00:17:09,109 --> 00:17:11,209 So overall, the 467 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:13,489 European situation for copyright looks 468 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:15,588 relatively bleak. 469 00:17:15,589 --> 00:17:17,838 But when I 470 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,999 ran for the European Parliament, changing 471 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,098 this 2001 copyright directive 472 00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:24,199 was actually one of my biggest 473 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,059 goals. And I feel like I have actually 474 00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:28,429 been elected at exactly the right time 475 00:17:28,430 --> 00:17:29,869 to do something about that. 476 00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:31,939 And the reason for that 477 00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:34,099 is actually mostly thanks to 478 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:35,100 you. 479 00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:38,329 Back in 2012, people 480 00:17:38,330 --> 00:17:40,189 in the European institutions really 481 00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:42,529 started noticing that something 482 00:17:42,530 --> 00:17:44,539 must be wrong with a copyright system. 483 00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:46,819 If all of a sudden tens of thousands 484 00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:49,459 of people are taking to the streets 485 00:17:49,460 --> 00:17:51,349 against the anti counterfeiting trade 486 00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:53,239 agreement ACTA and. 487 00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:05,869 Yeah, it was really the combination of 488 00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:07,879 like minded people working inside the 489 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,979 parliament to defeat ACTA and 490 00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:12,109 the protests on the street that made 491 00:18:12,110 --> 00:18:13,699 sure that in the end the European 492 00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:15,799 Parliament voted against ACTA and 493 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,379 made sure that it never came into force. 494 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:20,569 So some people in the European 495 00:18:20,570 --> 00:18:22,219 institutions have really started 496 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:24,289 realizing that 497 00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:26,539 now that we have managed to kind of 498 00:18:26,540 --> 00:18:28,579 make things stop getting worse for a 499 00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:30,649 while, that we may actually 500 00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:32,359 have a chance to change things for the 501 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:34,549 better. So one of the old 502 00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:36,289 commissioners from the commission that 503 00:18:36,290 --> 00:18:39,409 was in office until 504 00:18:39,410 --> 00:18:41,659 November of this year, Neelie 505 00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:44,179 Kroes, said in a speech 506 00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:46,399 that the 507 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,199 current copyright system, as I was 508 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,569 explaining, is so fragmented 509 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:52,699 and inflexible that it has 510 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:54,979 become completely irrelevant to people's 511 00:18:54,980 --> 00:18:55,379 lives. 512 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:56,899 Nobody is able to follow it. 513 00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:59,029 Nobody cares whether they follow it. 514 00:18:59,030 --> 00:19:01,549 And of course, this quote was immediately 515 00:19:01,550 --> 00:19:03,499 turned around by copyright lobbyists who 516 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:06,109 said that Neelie Kroes had said that 517 00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:07,909 the cultural work of creators was 518 00:19:07,910 --> 00:19:10,039 irrelevant and were attacking her for 519 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,040 this. 520 00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:14,749 She wasn't actually directly in charge of 521 00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:16,879 the area of copyright, but even 522 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,499 the people in the commission who were 523 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,409 working on this issue were starting 524 00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:24,109 to to move a bit. 525 00:19:24,110 --> 00:19:26,659 So last year, around this time, 526 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:28,189 the European Commission was doing a 527 00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:30,979 public consultation on copyright, asking 528 00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:33,289 everybody who is affected by copyright 529 00:19:33,290 --> 00:19:35,599 to give them their opinions about 530 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,579 what is wrong with the current rules. 531 00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:40,129 So the way this worked is they 532 00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:42,319 put online, worked a word 533 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,599 document with 80 questions, 534 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,669 and you could download it, fill 535 00:19:46,670 --> 00:19:48,709 in the answers to the question and send 536 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:50,869 it back to them by email. 537 00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:52,909 By the way, questions only available in 538 00:19:52,910 --> 00:19:53,910 English. 539 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,959 So the EU expected that this 540 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,329 is kind of a very academic exercise. 541 00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:01,279 Maybe there would get a few hundred 542 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,099 responses, mostly from professional 543 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:05,959 organizations. 544 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,929 Here is what they got instead. 545 00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:10,999 Um, this is 546 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,549 the number of participants in several 547 00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:14,749 public consultations. 548 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:17,150 And you can see that there is a huge 549 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,509 relationship between whether or not 550 00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:22,609 such a consultation can be 551 00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:25,009 filled up in online 552 00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:27,169 and is aimed at the general public 553 00:20:27,170 --> 00:20:29,599 or whether it's just such a document. 554 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,269 So out of all the public consultations 555 00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:33,889 ever done that we're just kind of a 556 00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:35,749 document put on the website. 557 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:37,969 The copyright consultation by far 558 00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:39,709 was the one that received the most 559 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:40,489 responses. 560 00:20:40,490 --> 00:20:42,949 And it all in all, it was over 561 00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:45,709 9000 and 562 00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:46,710 incidentally 563 00:20:48,530 --> 00:20:50,659 and about half of them actually 564 00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:52,879 came from end users of 565 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:53,880 the Internet. 566 00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:55,819 One of the reasons. 567 00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:03,749 One of the reasons this came about is 568 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,239 because developers started 569 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,399 building free software that you could 570 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,469 use to make it easier to reply to this 571 00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:12,809 consultation, and 572 00:21:12,810 --> 00:21:15,219 it was actually at a workshop at the 30 573 00:21:15,220 --> 00:21:17,729 C3 where the project copy wrongs 574 00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:19,799 that you were started, which was 575 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,139 using such a free software architecture 576 00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:23,759 to build an online forum that would 577 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,439 really guide you through the questions, 578 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,959 like if you want YouTube videos 579 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,699 to stop being blocked, go to question 580 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:32,159 number 20 or whatever and 581 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,409 really explain kind of the technical 582 00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:36,659 terms behind it and make it really easy 583 00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:38,519 for average people to reply to this 584 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,319 consultation. 585 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,989 This exercise was actually so successful 586 00:21:42,990 --> 00:21:45,509 that the free software that was built 587 00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:48,149 and and released on GitHub 588 00:21:48,150 --> 00:21:50,759 was actually used by collecting societies 589 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,769 to then mobilize their members to also 590 00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:54,449 reply to the consultation. 591 00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:56,849 So I think this is a very great example 592 00:21:56,850 --> 00:21:58,739 of kind of collaborating and using 593 00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:02,129 access to free knowledge to be able 594 00:22:02,130 --> 00:22:04,409 to amplify the public debate about 595 00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:05,459 politics. 596 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:07,589 And the European Commission has 597 00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:10,139 also noted that this has really improved 598 00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:12,539 kind of the general participation 599 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:15,329 in this debate and really added to 600 00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:17,099 the results that they have received. 601 00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:20,969 Because in a lot of copyright debates, 602 00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:23,699 what you usually have is that the users 603 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:25,409 of the Internet, the file shares are 604 00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:26,939 being blamed. 605 00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:29,009 The artists are being used as kind 606 00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:31,079 of the reason for a lot of 607 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,479 demands and in 608 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,579 but usually not by the people who are 609 00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:37,799 actually the object of these 610 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,699 discussions. 611 00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:40,739 So in the answers to the consultation, we 612 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:41,740 have a great 613 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,029 opportunity because the two groups that 614 00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,189 actually replied the most were users 615 00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:48,209 and artists. 616 00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:50,069 So exactly the ones that are always 617 00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:51,839 invoked in these discussions, but where 618 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,249 we never hear what they actually are 619 00:22:53,250 --> 00:22:55,409 thinking, what their actual problems are. 620 00:22:55,410 --> 00:22:57,779 So what we found is 621 00:22:57,780 --> 00:23:00,179 that on the one hand, you have 622 00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:02,579 users that is mostly 623 00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:04,499 regular Internet users, but it also 624 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,839 includes libraries, public 625 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,909 archives, universities and so on that 626 00:23:08,910 --> 00:23:10,349 have to deal with copyright. 627 00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:12,599 They are all pretty much across 628 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,549 the board saying that European copyright 629 00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:16,679 needs to be reformed and it needs to 630 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,420 be reformed by law. 631 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,409 On the other end of the spectrum, 632 00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:24,809 you have rights holders like publishers, 633 00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:28,019 public broadcasters, private broadcasters 634 00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:30,209 and collecting societies that 635 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:31,859 are all saying that everything is fine 636 00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:33,389 with the current system and they don't 637 00:23:33,390 --> 00:23:35,399 want a legal reform. 638 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,499 And interestingly, the artists are 639 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:38,699 actually caught in the middle. 640 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:40,799 They do see some areas where they 641 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,509 have problems with the current copyright 642 00:23:42,510 --> 00:23:44,729 law. Sometimes they agree with the users, 643 00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:46,169 sometimes they agree with the rights 644 00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:47,009 holders. 645 00:23:47,010 --> 00:23:49,199 And if the commission 646 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,839 actually wants to go and do a reform, 647 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,819 it's quite clear in which direction this 648 00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,769 reform would have to go, because one side 649 00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:57,599 of the debate, the rights holders, 650 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,369 actually doesn't want to change pretty 651 00:23:59,370 --> 00:24:00,929 much anything at all. 652 00:24:00,930 --> 00:24:03,329 So it's quite encouraging 653 00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:05,069 to see that the new commission actually 654 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:06,989 does want reform. 655 00:24:06,990 --> 00:24:09,689 I was quite surprised to see when 656 00:24:09,690 --> 00:24:11,909 the new commission president, Jean-Claude 657 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:14,159 Juncker, was running for a commission 658 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,439 president. He had a five point plan 659 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,969 in his election campaign. 660 00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:20,309 And it was actually in point one 661 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:22,170 that he mentioned copyright reform. 662 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:26,369 If you look at this quote from when 663 00:24:26,370 --> 00:24:28,109 he appeared in front of the European 664 00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:30,209 Parliament a couple of years ago, 665 00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:31,679 this kind of statement would have been 666 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,439 revolutionary, that a conservative 667 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,719 politician comes out and admits 668 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,429 that under certain circumstances, 669 00:24:38,430 --> 00:24:40,199 copyright can actually be harmful. 670 00:24:41,550 --> 00:24:43,739 And now if you look at the commission 671 00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:46,019 work program for next year, 672 00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:47,759 they have said that they are going to 673 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,059 come out with a new proposal in 2015. 674 00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:53,069 So we're expecting to see something quite 675 00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:53,879 soon. 676 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,069 And what Juncker 677 00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:58,769 also did is he moved the responsibility 678 00:24:58,770 --> 00:25:00,779 for copyright from the economic 679 00:25:00,780 --> 00:25:02,249 department of the commission to the 680 00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:03,569 digital department. 681 00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:05,399 So this can also give you a bit of an 682 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,829 idea of which direction this reform 683 00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:09,839 is supposed to take. 684 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,759 Of course, we were all quite curious to 685 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,259 see who in the commission would be 686 00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:14,759 responsible for this. 687 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,069 So when Jean-Claude Juncker 688 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:20,219 revealed his new cabinet, we were really 689 00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:22,949 kind of, well, scared or disappointed. 690 00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:25,379 We saw that the Vice-President 691 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:27,509 responsible for digital affairs 692 00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:29,999 was Andrus Ansip, the former 693 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,769 prime ministers of Estonia. 694 00:25:31,770 --> 00:25:33,899 Honestly, I didn't know much about him at 695 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,599 the time, except that 696 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,939 he was a huge supporter of ACTA 697 00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:41,159 back in 2012 and had called the people 698 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,019 who were protesting it tinfoil hats. 699 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,199 But we were really surprised that when he 700 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,029 actually came to the European Parliament 701 00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:50,099 for his hearing, he said stuff 702 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:52,319 like this, I'm against geo blocking. 703 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,939 It just isn't fair. 704 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:55,589 He also said that all the 705 00:25:56,910 --> 00:25:58,829 software funded by the. 706 00:25:58,830 --> 00:26:00,989 Union should be open source, he also 707 00:26:00,990 --> 00:26:03,239 said that people should have access to 708 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,309 any cultural content that they paid for, 709 00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:07,619 either directly or through taxes. 710 00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:09,749 So really quite some revolutionary 711 00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:11,549 statements there and. 712 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:18,119 I was sitting there with one of 713 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,249 my colleagues and when he was kind 714 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:22,739 of giving a short history of 715 00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:24,839 one to five, do you roll out 716 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:25,949 in the European Union? 717 00:26:25,950 --> 00:26:27,449 He turned to me and said he is actually 718 00:26:27,450 --> 00:26:28,979 kind of a nerd. 719 00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:31,349 And it was kind of 720 00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:33,449 yeah, like in his statement 721 00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:35,849 to the parliament, where he was asked 722 00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:37,649 whether he is qualified to the for the 723 00:26:37,650 --> 00:26:39,179 job he kind of listed. 724 00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:41,279 Yeah, I'm not really a programmer 725 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,779 or anything, but I've learned these 726 00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:43,859 languages in school. 727 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:45,989 And so kind of he's 728 00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:48,089 he seems to be at least aware of 729 00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:49,740 of what this topic is about. 730 00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:52,920 So at the same time, 731 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,479 the European Parliament has now started 732 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,639 looking at the old copyright directive, 733 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,679 and they have actually put me in charge 734 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,869 of writing their report about what 735 00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:05,579 is wrong with current copyright laws. 736 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,419 So that means I'm the rapporteur 737 00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:17,699 for the review of the copyright directive 738 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,859 from 2001, I will 739 00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:22,049 be publishing my draft report 740 00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,789 in a few weeks, and then it will be my 741 00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:25,859 job to negotiate with 742 00:27:25,860 --> 00:27:27,479 the shadow rapporteurs of the other 743 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,669 groups in the European Parliament to 744 00:27:29,670 --> 00:27:31,589 hopefully come to a consensus text. 745 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:33,869 That one will then be adopted later 746 00:27:33,870 --> 00:27:36,119 this year and will go into 747 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,519 the new proposal for a European 748 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,809 copyright reform. 749 00:27:39,810 --> 00:27:41,699 And I think we really have a unique 750 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:44,069 opportunity here to shift the focus 751 00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:46,259 from a copyright that has 752 00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:48,659 ever been expanding its scope and ever 753 00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:51,149 having more zealous enforcement 754 00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:53,249 of copyright rules to 755 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:55,469 actually getting the European Union to 756 00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:57,779 to enforce and to put into law 757 00:27:57,780 --> 00:28:00,029 a minimum rights of users, minimum 758 00:28:00,030 --> 00:28:02,159 rights of the public about what we 759 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,379 should have a right to do with cultural 760 00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:05,369 works. 761 00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:07,439 And so I think for the 762 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,089 first time, we really have the chance to 763 00:28:09,090 --> 00:28:11,249 turn things around and not just stop kind 764 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:13,529 of bad laws from being adopted, 765 00:28:13,530 --> 00:28:15,029 but actually change things for the 766 00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:16,030 better. 767 00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:19,499 So how could something like this look 768 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,719 like? Well, one way 769 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,789 of achieving this shift is actually to 770 00:28:23,790 --> 00:28:25,859 replace the 28 national 771 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:27,869 copyright system with the European 772 00:28:27,870 --> 00:28:29,609 copyright title. 773 00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:31,829 This may sound pretty crazy 774 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:34,949 or a bit scary at first, but 775 00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:36,959 I think we all have a lot of experience 776 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,209 with how difficult it is to reform 777 00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:41,309 a very complex, already existing 778 00:28:41,310 --> 00:28:43,649 system and to apply patches 779 00:28:43,650 --> 00:28:46,079 to it when really the fundamental 780 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,179 problems with it lie in 781 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:50,429 its structure. So if we actually went 782 00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:52,379 this direction and go for a European 783 00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:54,419 copyright, we have the chance to start 784 00:28:54,420 --> 00:28:55,499 with a blank slate. 785 00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:57,569 And at least I think we would not 786 00:28:57,570 --> 00:28:59,759 end up with the very 787 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,159 crazy parts 788 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,929 of the current copyright law that say, 789 00:29:03,930 --> 00:29:06,209 for example, that, yeah, you can 790 00:29:06,210 --> 00:29:08,849 look at an e-book from a public library, 791 00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:10,199 but you actually have to go to the 792 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,209 library and go to a special reading 793 00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:14,429 terminal. And only as many people 794 00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:16,019 can look at the e-book as there are 795 00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:18,179 physical copies in the library 796 00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:20,609 and so on. So I think if you actually 797 00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:22,769 start from scratch and write something 798 00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:24,899 new, it would probably be a lot 799 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:26,999 more adapted to the Internet 800 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,279 and to the digital world we live in right 801 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,449 now. And also what they cannot do with 802 00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:33,539 the European copyright is kind of 803 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:35,219 harmonize the rights of the right 804 00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:37,409 holders, but leave the 805 00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:39,569 rights of the public completely optional. 806 00:29:39,570 --> 00:29:41,729 So either you have a right to 807 00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:44,309 parody or to freedom of Panorama 808 00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:45,299 or you don't. 809 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:47,489 But it would be more well, 810 00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:49,859 it would be easier to exchange culture 811 00:29:49,860 --> 00:29:51,119 across borders. 812 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,549 So definitely 813 00:29:53,550 --> 00:29:55,589 a European copyright could put an end to 814 00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:57,749 geo blocking based on European IP 815 00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:59,699 addresses. So no more. 816 00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,469 This video is not available in your 817 00:30:01,470 --> 00:30:03,299 country if you travel from Germany to 818 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:05,399 Austria and we can 819 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,619 actually enshrine into law a user's 820 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:09,809 right to access culture across 821 00:30:09,810 --> 00:30:11,999 national borders, we 822 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,969 have the chance to stop the ever 823 00:30:14,970 --> 00:30:17,129 infinite increase in the length of 824 00:30:17,130 --> 00:30:19,349 copyright terms and for the first time 825 00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:21,719 in history, actually turn things around 826 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:22,720 and reduce them. 827 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,339 We can put an end 828 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:28,709 to to digital 829 00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:31,109 restrictions on works that 830 00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:33,059 we have actually bought legally. 831 00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:34,060 Um. 832 00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:43,719 Under the current copyright 833 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,449 directive of the European Union, 834 00:30:46,450 --> 00:30:48,669 it is illegal to circumvent 835 00:30:48,670 --> 00:30:50,889 digital protections even if you actually 836 00:30:50,890 --> 00:30:52,989 have a right through a copyright 837 00:30:52,990 --> 00:30:55,119 exception to use this work. 838 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,769 So, for example, a lot of European 839 00:30:56,770 --> 00:30:58,839 countries have a right to private 840 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,479 copy, which is connected 841 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,729 to an author's right to get some money 842 00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:05,499 for it. So a lot of European countries 843 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,209 have something where, OK, you're allowed 844 00:31:07,210 --> 00:31:08,979 to make private copies, but you have to 845 00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:11,109 pay a levy on every hard disk 846 00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:13,149 you buy. But actually, we have a crazy 847 00:31:13,150 --> 00:31:15,339 situation right now where everybody is 848 00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:16,959 forced to pay these levies. 849 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,339 But if you actually want to make a 850 00:31:18,340 --> 00:31:20,319 private copy and there is a technological 851 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,509 protection measure on this work, you 852 00:31:22,510 --> 00:31:24,639 are breaking the law if you're actually 853 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,899 circumventing this. 854 00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:27,639 So this is something that really needs to 855 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,039 change. And I think it's not 856 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,169 too much to ask that if you have a 857 00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:34,329 copyright exception, it's a user's right 858 00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:36,399 to actually exercise this exception 859 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,349 and you cannot use technical protections 860 00:31:38,350 --> 00:31:39,699 to keep people from doing that. 861 00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:48,949 I think we can use this copyright 862 00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:51,169 reform to include some sort 863 00:31:51,170 --> 00:31:53,599 of a flexible norm, like the fair use 864 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,239 clause in the United States to make 865 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,399 the European copyright more flexible, to 866 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,369 react to technological changes. 867 00:32:01,370 --> 00:32:03,379 This is especially important because 868 00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:06,469 European legislation is really slow. 869 00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:08,779 The 2001 directive that we are working 870 00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:11,059 with now was passed at a time 871 00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:13,519 when there was no YouTube, no Facebook, 872 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,829 and it actually talks in its text 873 00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:16,849 about CD-ROMs. 874 00:32:16,850 --> 00:32:18,949 So you can see how these kinds of things 875 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:21,769 can really get outdated quite quickly. 876 00:32:21,770 --> 00:32:24,049 So we can use 877 00:32:24,050 --> 00:32:26,599 this reform to achieve a shift 878 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,969 from a read only culture that looks 879 00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:31,129 at the Internet as a distribution 880 00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:33,319 medium of offers that are 881 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,479 professional creators to read 882 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,009 and write a culture where every 883 00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:39,199 participant in the Internet is both 884 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,179 a creator and a consumer at the same 885 00:32:41,180 --> 00:32:43,699 time, and create 886 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:46,099 copyright laws that no longer 887 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,409 try to protect existing business 888 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:50,479 models, but actually foster new 889 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,639 creation, including 890 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,900 the right to remix. 891 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,969 So I think now is really our best chance 892 00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:04,709 to make these changes, because the 893 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,779 European Commission has committed 894 00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:08,969 to putting something out next year, 895 00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,339 but there is just one little 896 00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:12,340 problem. 897 00:33:14,130 --> 00:33:16,229 I in in the European Parliament 898 00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:18,329 cannot actually write 899 00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:20,069 such a draft law. 900 00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:22,289 The proposal for the new European 901 00:33:22,290 --> 00:33:24,209 copyright law will have to come out of 902 00:33:24,210 --> 00:33:25,619 the European Commission. 903 00:33:25,620 --> 00:33:27,389 And the commissioner, who is most likely 904 00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:29,579 going to be drafting this text 905 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:31,889 is the digital gun toting, 906 00:33:31,890 --> 00:33:33,479 the digital commissioner, Gunter 907 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,669 Attinger, who is below 908 00:33:35,670 --> 00:33:37,769 the digital vice president and was 909 00:33:37,770 --> 00:33:38,669 Ansip. 910 00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:40,649 And everything that Uttinger has said so 911 00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:42,719 far is not exactly 912 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,720 encouraging. 913 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,189 His favorite public 914 00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:48,929 enemy is Google. 915 00:33:48,930 --> 00:33:51,429 So in this article, 916 00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:53,609 an interview with Spiegel saying 917 00:33:53,610 --> 00:33:55,829 we can force Google, what he's talking 918 00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:57,899 about is we can force Google to pay for 919 00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:58,799 all kinds of things. 920 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,229 So in an interview, he said 921 00:34:01,230 --> 00:34:03,149 that Google should pay for cultural 922 00:34:03,150 --> 00:34:04,289 content. 923 00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:06,449 And this is something that has been 924 00:34:06,450 --> 00:34:08,609 tried recently in Germany and in 925 00:34:08,610 --> 00:34:10,979 Spain and has really backfired 926 00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:11,980 spectacularly 927 00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:15,299 in Germany. 928 00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:17,849 A couple of years ago, press publishers 929 00:34:17,850 --> 00:34:20,249 lobbied for the so-called ancillary 930 00:34:20,250 --> 00:34:22,529 copyright for press publishers, which 931 00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:25,109 means that aggregators like Google 932 00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:27,178 would have to pay if they want to use 933 00:34:27,179 --> 00:34:29,759 parts of publicly available newspaper 934 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,769 articles in a service like Google News, 935 00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:33,479 for example. 936 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,549 So Google's reaction to that, of 937 00:34:35,550 --> 00:34:37,649 course, was, well, they 938 00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:39,809 looked at which publishers were actually 939 00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:41,158 asking for this fine. 940 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,709 A lot of publishers simply said 941 00:34:43,710 --> 00:34:45,599 that Google can use that content for free 942 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,888 because they're actually getting their 943 00:34:46,889 --> 00:34:48,448 visitors from Google News. 944 00:34:48,449 --> 00:34:50,309 And so it would be kind of a mutually 945 00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:51,959 beneficial situation. 946 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,309 But some large publishers, like 947 00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:55,738 excerpting out, for example, were 948 00:34:55,739 --> 00:34:57,659 insisting to have Google pay for this 949 00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:58,829 content. 950 00:34:58,830 --> 00:35:01,379 So Google simply started 951 00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:03,689 listing the pictures from those articles 952 00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:05,939 and snippets from them and only showed 953 00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:07,019 the headlines. 954 00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:10,139 And, well, not surprisingly, 955 00:35:10,140 --> 00:35:12,329 the traffic to these publishers 956 00:35:12,330 --> 00:35:13,889 websites plummeted. 957 00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:16,019 And very quickly, they gave 958 00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:17,849 Google a free license to use their 959 00:35:17,850 --> 00:35:20,129 content anyway because they realized 960 00:35:20,130 --> 00:35:22,049 that they were benefiting from this more 961 00:35:22,050 --> 00:35:23,050 than Google was. 962 00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:26,729 So then they went to the German 963 00:35:28,110 --> 00:35:30,389 antitrust authority and said that Google 964 00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:33,389 was abusing its dominant market position 965 00:35:33,390 --> 00:35:35,639 by forcing them to give them a free 966 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,569 license. 967 00:35:36,570 --> 00:35:38,939 And the German antitrust authority 968 00:35:38,940 --> 00:35:41,489 said, well, it's not an antitrust 969 00:35:41,490 --> 00:35:43,589 problem that you cannot force a company 970 00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:45,420 to pay for something it doesn't want 971 00:35:48,030 --> 00:35:50,099 in. In Spain, they tried to fix this 972 00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:52,559 problem by introducing a similar 973 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,999 law as the German one. 974 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,819 But the only exception is that they made 975 00:35:56,820 --> 00:35:59,519 this ancillary copyright an inalienable 976 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,679 right, which means even if a publisher 977 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,959 wants you to use their content for free, 978 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,029 they are not allowed to allow this to 979 00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:08,070 you. So they have to charge a fine. 980 00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:11,309 So what Google did is that they shut down 981 00:36:11,310 --> 00:36:13,949 Google News in Spain and 982 00:36:13,950 --> 00:36:16,499 now the Spanish publishers are facing 983 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,749 a decline in 984 00:36:18,750 --> 00:36:20,789 visitors to their website and they are 985 00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:22,889 calling on the Spanish government to 986 00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:25,079 intervene to either force Google 987 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,539 to, uh, well, use 988 00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:29,789 Google News in Spain or to actually 989 00:36:29,790 --> 00:36:31,149 repeal this law. 990 00:36:31,150 --> 00:36:33,389 At the same time, German publishers are 991 00:36:33,390 --> 00:36:35,339 calling for the Spanish law to be 992 00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:37,119 implemented in Germany. 993 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,270 Um, so 994 00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:41,579 good at getting out when you were 995 00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:43,739 speaking in front of German publishers, 996 00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:45,599 has promised that he would try to 997 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,069 introduce something like this on a 998 00:36:47,070 --> 00:36:49,319 European level because clearly Google 999 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,939 won't shut down Google News in all of 1000 00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:52,419 Europe. Or maybe they will. 1001 00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:53,759 We'll see. 1002 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,889 But, yeah, this is kind of one 1003 00:36:55,890 --> 00:36:58,089 of the ideas that, uh, Gunter 1004 00:36:58,090 --> 00:37:00,089 Etinger has come up with so far. 1005 00:37:00,090 --> 00:37:02,369 And I think that's really quite 1006 00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:04,709 disconcerting because the side 1007 00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:06,329 effects of this are, of course, 1008 00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:08,459 absolutely devastating, because 1009 00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:10,259 a company like Google, if they really 1010 00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:11,909 wanted to, they could, of course, afford 1011 00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:14,129 to pay publishers, although I don't see 1012 00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:15,029 why they would. 1013 00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:17,099 But if you're a small aggregator, if 1014 00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:19,859 you're a competitor to Google or a simply 1015 00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:21,929 a blogger who is 1016 00:37:21,930 --> 00:37:23,999 doing reviews of press 1017 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,619 articles or something like that, 1018 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,799 you are affected by this law and it's 1019 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,899 basically putting a price tag 1020 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:33,449 on embedded linking and thereby 1021 00:37:33,450 --> 00:37:35,639 really is a problem 1022 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,979 for free speech and is 1023 00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:38,980 endangering 1024 00:37:40,350 --> 00:37:42,479 the the very structure 1025 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,979 of the Internet. 1026 00:37:43,980 --> 00:37:45,269 Um, but yeah. 1027 00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:47,649 So that makes it all the more evident 1028 00:37:47,650 --> 00:37:49,559 that Attinger is really in need of being 1029 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,379 fed some good ideas about copyright 1030 00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:54,089 by the people who are actually affected 1031 00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:56,549 by it, which is you. 1032 00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:58,979 And, uh, right now I think. 1033 00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:00,919 Is mostly being approached by large 1034 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,779 German publishing houses, and this is 1035 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:05,059 probably not the best advice to get, 1036 00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:07,129 and it is, of course, a difficult 1037 00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:09,229 situation when we are we have 1038 00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:11,479 a copyright reform that is being reported 1039 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,819 about by news publishers 1040 00:38:13,820 --> 00:38:15,679 who at the same time have a commercial 1041 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,059 interest in this area. 1042 00:38:17,060 --> 00:38:18,799 And that makes it all the more important 1043 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,629 to have alternative sources of 1044 00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:23,359 information and to have a public debate 1045 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,609 about this copyright reform taking 1046 00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:27,529 place aside from the traditional 1047 00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:29,749 newspapers, and to really put 1048 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:31,249 this to debate online. 1049 00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:36,769 So most of the voices 1050 00:38:36,770 --> 00:38:38,779 in the Brussels bubble, most of the 1051 00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:41,239 lobbyists do not want any change 1052 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,459 at all. And they are really 1053 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:45,259 not on our side on this. 1054 00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:47,449 So this is a letter 1055 00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:49,969 that's some of my colleagues from the 1056 00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:52,249 German Green Party and the German Social 1057 00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:54,079 Democrats got in the parliament, 1058 00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:56,899 which was complaining that they were 1059 00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:59,419 considering making me the rapporteur 1060 00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:01,699 for the copyright reform and saying 1061 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:03,679 it would be a slap in the face of any 1062 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,199 creator and it might damage 1063 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,630 the trust in the German Social Democrats. 1064 00:39:13,830 --> 00:39:16,079 So but to 1065 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,599 their credit, the Social Democrats 1066 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,279 and the Greens were actually absolutely 1067 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,919 unfazed by this, and they were 1068 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,839 almost offended that a lobbyist would 1069 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,149 actually go as far and kind of 1070 00:39:27,150 --> 00:39:29,249 give them advice of the internal workings 1071 00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:30,209 of the parliament. 1072 00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:32,279 So, yeah, maybe this is the first time 1073 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,349 the spidy gets credit at a 1074 00:39:34,350 --> 00:39:35,419 C.C.C. Congress. 1075 00:39:35,420 --> 00:39:36,420 So 1076 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,629 but the lobby group behind 1077 00:39:39,630 --> 00:39:42,689 this letter actually Composers' Club, 1078 00:39:42,690 --> 00:39:44,849 they were known as C.C.C. 1079 00:39:44,850 --> 00:39:47,849 Commercial Composers' Club until 1999. 1080 00:39:47,850 --> 00:39:49,529 And then they decided they needed a 1081 00:39:49,530 --> 00:39:50,909 rebranding. 1082 00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:53,189 Now they are called CESI. 1083 00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:55,199 I don't think they have a lot of luck 1084 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:56,200 with names. 1085 00:39:59,670 --> 00:40:01,709 French copyright lobby is also quite 1086 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:03,809 active. So I was a bit surprised when all 1087 00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:05,819 of a sudden the French minister of 1088 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:08,099 culture and communication did a speech 1089 00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:09,929 in which she complained that I was the 1090 00:40:09,930 --> 00:40:12,149 rapporteur for the copyright 1091 00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:12,599 reform. 1092 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,819 Out of the 751 1093 00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:16,229 members of the parliament, they picked 1094 00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:18,030 the one pirate and 1095 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,239 that well, she didn't think that I would 1096 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,489 be able to kind of the lead 1097 00:40:23,490 --> 00:40:25,619 a serious discussion about 1098 00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:26,939 this important topic. 1099 00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:29,969 And it's kind of sad 1100 00:40:29,970 --> 00:40:31,739 if she thinks that that so far she has 1101 00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:33,899 not replied to my invitation to actually 1102 00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:35,429 sit down with her and have a serious 1103 00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:36,780 discussion about copyright. 1104 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,779 But this is still kind of one of the more 1105 00:40:39,780 --> 00:40:41,849 harmless attacks that 1106 00:40:41,850 --> 00:40:43,619 I'm getting from France. 1107 00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:45,569 There was an article in the French 1108 00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:47,789 Huffington Post in 1109 00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:50,219 which I was compared to a bank robber 1110 00:40:50,220 --> 00:40:51,269 and a fraudster. 1111 00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:53,039 And I guess next thing, they're going to 1112 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,040 call me a pirate. 1113 00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:05,129 And well, there's this French 1114 00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:07,019 lobbyist who gets to write in The 1115 00:41:07,020 --> 00:41:09,449 Huffington Post argues that 1116 00:41:09,450 --> 00:41:11,249 there's a conspiracy between me and 1117 00:41:11,250 --> 00:41:12,600 Günther Oettinger and that 1118 00:41:14,250 --> 00:41:16,169 he actually made me the rapporteur for 1119 00:41:16,170 --> 00:41:17,939 copyright reform. 1120 00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:20,369 Of course, the commission has absolutely 1121 00:41:20,370 --> 00:41:22,469 no influence on who becomes 1122 00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:24,119 rapporteur, but for them, it's kind of 1123 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,219 enough evidence of a German 1124 00:41:26,220 --> 00:41:28,109 conspiracy that, well, he's German. 1125 00:41:28,110 --> 00:41:29,039 I'm German. 1126 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,079 We both want some sort of copyright 1127 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,149 reform. So clearly, we 1128 00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:35,159 must follow a secret common agenda. 1129 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,589 This is a breakdown of the 1130 00:41:43,590 --> 00:41:45,719 about 80 meeting requests I 1131 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:47,789 have gotten around copyright so far. 1132 00:41:49,980 --> 00:41:51,839 I have broken them down into different 1133 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,329 groups of the publishers and kormos, that 1134 00:41:54,330 --> 00:41:56,789 collective management organizations, 1135 00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:59,760 broadcasters, newspaper publishers, 1136 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,719 producers of record labels and so 1137 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,089 on, that really are the vast majority 1138 00:42:06,090 --> 00:42:08,219 of of lobbyists that contact me in 1139 00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:09,329 Brussels. 1140 00:42:09,330 --> 00:42:10,919 There are also quite a few service 1141 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,049 providers. So ISPs 1142 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:14,759 in some cases that are worried about 1143 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,199 liability, but also 1144 00:42:17,220 --> 00:42:19,589 providers of online streaming services 1145 00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:20,590 and so on. 1146 00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:24,029 I got relatively, 1147 00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:26,129 well, at least a few requests 1148 00:42:26,130 --> 00:42:27,509 from actual users or their 1149 00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:28,419 representatives. 1150 00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:31,019 So that's library associations. 1151 00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:33,869 Some of the digital rights organizations, 1152 00:42:33,870 --> 00:42:35,969 the authorities is 1153 00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:38,219 kind of the European Commission or 1154 00:42:38,220 --> 00:42:40,529 the copyright office of particular member 1155 00:42:40,530 --> 00:42:41,489 states. 1156 00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:44,099 And very, very few authors 1157 00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:46,169 actually represent themselves as 1158 00:42:46,170 --> 00:42:47,609 lobbyists. 1159 00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:50,039 They are almost almost always represented 1160 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,229 by collecting societies in 1161 00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:54,329 lobbyism. So whenever 1162 00:42:54,330 --> 00:42:56,249 there is a difference of opinion between 1163 00:42:56,250 --> 00:42:58,259 the authors and the collecting societies, 1164 00:42:58,260 --> 00:43:00,629 it will be the voice of the collecting 1165 00:43:00,630 --> 00:43:03,599 societies that is transported 1166 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,879 to the politicians. 1167 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,039 And I really think this is a structural 1168 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,040 problem. 1169 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,299 So this really shows that, well, 1170 00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:14,399 if we want kind of a balanced picture 1171 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,919 of what's going on with copyright, 1172 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,139 the digital rights organizations that 1173 00:43:19,140 --> 00:43:21,959 you were involved in, or you personally 1174 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,779 really feel free to get in contact with 1175 00:43:24,780 --> 00:43:26,849 the various people in the commission and 1176 00:43:26,850 --> 00:43:28,349 in the parliament who are working on 1177 00:43:28,350 --> 00:43:29,279 these issues. 1178 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,349 It's really not that difficult to 1179 00:43:31,350 --> 00:43:32,939 get to a meeting. I think a lot of the 1180 00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:35,159 challenges are more a kind of a 1181 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,589 financial that, well, 1182 00:43:37,590 --> 00:43:39,749 wealthy organizations have an easier time 1183 00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:41,669 to employ somebody full time to go to 1184 00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:43,769 Brussels. But if you have a chance 1185 00:43:43,770 --> 00:43:45,539 to contact them or have some time to 1186 00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:47,760 spend on that, it's really a large help. 1187 00:43:49,650 --> 00:43:52,349 About half of the meetings 1188 00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:54,009 I have actually said yes to. 1189 00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:55,769 So these are the lobby meetings that I 1190 00:43:55,770 --> 00:43:57,869 attended. I'm trying to 1191 00:43:57,870 --> 00:44:00,029 really make an effort to make 1192 00:44:00,030 --> 00:44:02,639 this more balanced, to see about, 1193 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,799 well, a relatively 1194 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,419 equal number of lobbyists from the 1195 00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:07,919 different groups that are involved in 1196 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,569 this. And I'm also going to publish a 1197 00:44:09,570 --> 00:44:11,969 detailed list of who this is exactly 1198 00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:13,619 that I met with and also everybody who 1199 00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:14,880 made a request to meet me. 1200 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,899 But, yeah, at the end of the day, I think 1201 00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:20,609 a lot of the other parliamentarians 1202 00:44:20,610 --> 00:44:23,039 working with copyright will be confronted 1203 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,749 with more or less the same picture. 1204 00:44:24,750 --> 00:44:26,159 I think they will get probably 1205 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,439 significantly less the 1206 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,359 lobby meetings with users, 1207 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,129 representatives or digital rights 1208 00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:34,259 organizations, because a lot of them 1209 00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:35,759 I talked to because they know me. 1210 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,889 And so we meet anyway. 1211 00:44:37,890 --> 00:44:40,529 But I include this in my transparency 1212 00:44:40,530 --> 00:44:42,599 report so that it's not kind 1213 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:43,600 of a loophole. 1214 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,249 So, yeah, I think for for the people 1215 00:44:47,250 --> 00:44:49,349 who are not actively trying to achieve 1216 00:44:49,350 --> 00:44:51,599 this balance, they are going to get 1217 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,849 a lot of more voices from the rights 1218 00:44:53,850 --> 00:44:54,850 holders. 1219 00:44:55,530 --> 00:44:57,569 So what this may lead to is kind of a 1220 00:44:57,570 --> 00:44:59,549 typical Brussels compromise. 1221 00:44:59,550 --> 00:45:01,529 The European Commission does want to 1222 00:45:01,530 --> 00:45:04,289 reform copyright, but they are 1223 00:45:04,290 --> 00:45:06,509 afraid of the pressure that is coming, 1224 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:08,459 especially from the collective management 1225 00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:10,529 organizations, from the publishers, 1226 00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:12,689 and they will try to please them somehow. 1227 00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:14,909 And what is 1228 00:45:14,910 --> 00:45:16,829 well, one danger of what is going to 1229 00:45:16,830 --> 00:45:18,389 happen is that they are just going to 1230 00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:20,639 apply a few patches here and there, 1231 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,409 but not address any of the real 1232 00:45:22,410 --> 00:45:24,090 structural problems that we have. 1233 00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:28,289 So we really need to kind 1234 00:45:28,290 --> 00:45:30,329 of get into this debate and also give the 1235 00:45:30,330 --> 00:45:32,609 European Commission for once some 1236 00:45:32,610 --> 00:45:34,679 political support that they can 1237 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,749 actually justify making 1238 00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:38,939 some more radical changes. 1239 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,299 So what does that mean in practice? 1240 00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:44,459 Well, one of the most important things is 1241 00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:46,019 to bring this issue into the public 1242 00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:48,989 debate and also discuss about 1243 00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:50,669 the copyright system that you would want 1244 00:45:50,670 --> 00:45:52,889 to see. So if you find this idea 1245 00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:55,589 of a European copyright convincing, 1246 00:45:55,590 --> 00:45:57,299 there are some academics who put work 1247 00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:59,699 into that. Who did the copyright 1248 00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:01,769 code that you 1249 00:46:01,770 --> 00:46:03,869 which is one example 1250 00:46:03,870 --> 00:46:05,759 of what such a European copyright could 1251 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,099 look like, a blog about that kind 1252 00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:10,259 of stuff, make films about the problems 1253 00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:12,389 with copyright, do theater about 1254 00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:14,969 them, and keep bugging your 1255 00:46:14,970 --> 00:46:17,009 politicians, your local politicians on 1256 00:46:17,010 --> 00:46:18,010 this issue. 1257 00:46:19,950 --> 00:46:22,079 Probably the biggest problem that we face 1258 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,269 is that simply taking to the streets 1259 00:46:24,270 --> 00:46:26,339 like we did with ACTA is not going to 1260 00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:27,340 do anything here. 1261 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,169 It's comparatively easy to build 1262 00:46:31,170 --> 00:46:33,389 a movement against something and to 1263 00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:35,489 stop a bad law from being 1264 00:46:35,490 --> 00:46:37,169 put into place. 1265 00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:38,619 But it is a lot. 1266 00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:40,899 More difficult to actually mobilize 1267 00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:43,239 a community, to build a movement in favor 1268 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:45,579 of something, and 1269 00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:48,009 I think it's possible, but we really need 1270 00:46:48,010 --> 00:46:50,769 to not only complain, but to be willing 1271 00:46:50,770 --> 00:46:52,719 to actually find solutions and to 1272 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,579 compromise with the other political 1273 00:46:54,580 --> 00:46:56,829 voices that are in on this 1274 00:46:56,830 --> 00:46:58,959 debate. And it will be my job 1275 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,269 in the parliament to find a solution 1276 00:47:01,270 --> 00:47:03,129 that is acceptable for everybody. 1277 00:47:03,130 --> 00:47:06,039 But I really need you to be loud and to 1278 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,139 voice the ideas of 1279 00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:10,149 Internet users and of the hacker 1280 00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:12,459 community about what the European 1281 00:47:12,460 --> 00:47:13,690 copyright should look like. 1282 00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:16,539 So this is what's going to happen in the 1283 00:47:16,540 --> 00:47:18,369 next couple of months. 1284 00:47:18,370 --> 00:47:20,469 In January, I'm going to 1285 00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:22,179 publish my draft report. 1286 00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:25,059 So right now is the time to lobby me. 1287 00:47:25,060 --> 00:47:27,009 I will be around here for the rest of the 1288 00:47:27,010 --> 00:47:29,109 Congress. So please 1289 00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:31,209 feel free to approach me to come to my 1290 00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:33,429 workshop and to give me some ideas 1291 00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:35,649 about what 1292 00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:36,969 my report should contain. 1293 00:47:36,970 --> 00:47:39,429 So if you have problems 1294 00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:41,739 that you experience in your own country 1295 00:47:41,740 --> 00:47:43,419 that could be solved through European 1296 00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:45,639 copyright and that you 1297 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,099 haven't already submitted to the 1298 00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:50,289 to the consultation, please tell 1299 00:47:50,290 --> 00:47:51,889 me all about it. 1300 00:47:51,890 --> 00:47:54,159 And then in the next couple of months, 1301 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,289 there will be discussions in several 1302 00:47:56,290 --> 00:47:58,359 committees in the European Parliament. 1303 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,579 We are going to write an opinion on my 1304 00:48:00,580 --> 00:48:01,719 report. 1305 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:03,729 All of these opinions will also have a 1306 00:48:03,730 --> 00:48:06,069 rapporteur probably from another party. 1307 00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:08,859 Well, definitely from another party. 1308 00:48:08,860 --> 00:48:11,139 And so please approach them, tell them 1309 00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:13,419 about your issues and you 1310 00:48:13,420 --> 00:48:15,279 will be able to follow on my website 1311 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:16,869 exactly who these people are, what's 1312 00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:19,179 going on in the debate 1313 00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:20,180 in the parliament. 1314 00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:23,829 So in April, there's going 1315 00:48:23,830 --> 00:48:26,019 to be the vote in 1316 00:48:26,020 --> 00:48:27,819 the Legal Affairs Committee, the Uley 1317 00:48:27,820 --> 00:48:29,919 committee, which is responsible for 1318 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,749 copyright there. 1319 00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:33,669 People from other parties are going to 1320 00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:35,859 try to water down my report 1321 00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:37,959 by tabling amendments that will 1322 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,119 probably try to kind of change 1323 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,159 some of the parts of my report into its 1324 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,809 opposite. So then it will be really 1325 00:48:43,810 --> 00:48:46,059 important to contact people in 1326 00:48:46,060 --> 00:48:48,309 the Legal Affairs Committee, tell them 1327 00:48:48,310 --> 00:48:50,799 to vote on specific amendments or 1328 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,690 to support some amendments, perhaps 1329 00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:55,869 so that we can achieve a report that 1330 00:48:55,870 --> 00:48:58,059 is really kind of going in 1331 00:48:58,060 --> 00:49:00,069 the direction of a progressive copyright 1332 00:49:00,070 --> 00:49:01,329 reform. 1333 00:49:01,330 --> 00:49:03,279 The vote the final vote on this report 1334 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,469 would then be in May and sometime 1335 00:49:05,470 --> 00:49:07,689 in the summer, sometime between April 1336 00:49:07,690 --> 00:49:09,609 and fall. They haven't been very specific 1337 00:49:09,610 --> 00:49:10,989 about it. 1338 00:49:10,990 --> 00:49:13,209 The European Commission will publish 1339 00:49:13,210 --> 00:49:14,989 their proposal there. 1340 00:49:14,990 --> 00:49:16,599 I think the great challenge is going to 1341 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,159 be they're probably going to be some 1342 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,589 stuff in there that you dislike 1343 00:49:20,590 --> 00:49:22,569 unless it's completely horrible. 1344 00:49:22,570 --> 00:49:24,759 I would like to ask you to kind of take 1345 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,679 a constructive approach to it, to really 1346 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,379 look at what they come up with, 1347 00:49:29,380 --> 00:49:31,659 to discuss it, to 1348 00:49:31,660 --> 00:49:33,549 support it, if it's going in the right 1349 00:49:33,550 --> 00:49:35,979 direction and to formulate 1350 00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:38,349 possibilities of how it can be improved, 1351 00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:40,329 because then once the commission has 1352 00:49:40,330 --> 00:49:42,309 tabled their proposal, it will be once 1353 00:49:42,310 --> 00:49:44,829 again the parliament and the Council 1354 00:49:44,830 --> 00:49:46,899 of the National Governments that will 1355 00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:49,389 be able to change this proposal 1356 00:49:49,390 --> 00:49:51,519 for a European copyright law and that, 1357 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,499 in the end, will be the ones that will 1358 00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:54,500 have to pass it. 1359 00:49:57,170 --> 00:49:59,989 To take kind of a bigger picture, 1360 00:49:59,990 --> 00:50:02,029 I think most of the politicians in the 1361 00:50:02,030 --> 00:50:04,189 European Union know that we 1362 00:50:04,190 --> 00:50:05,360 have a huge problem. 1363 00:50:06,530 --> 00:50:08,659 We have a rise of nationalism 1364 00:50:08,660 --> 00:50:10,879 all across the EU and the EU is 1365 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,159 really in danger of losing its 1366 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,359 legitimacy. 1367 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,279 And they know that their future depends 1368 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:17,959 on the support of the people. 1369 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,929 So here we have kind of a unique 1370 00:50:20,930 --> 00:50:23,179 situation where a lot of the people 1371 00:50:23,180 --> 00:50:25,099 are actually asking the EU to do 1372 00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:25,999 something. 1373 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,799 They see a problem and they want it to be 1374 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,299 solved. 1375 00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:31,399 Usually where the EU gets 1376 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,529 most of its support from is 1377 00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:35,599 what they call the Four Freedoms, 1378 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,369 which is the freedom of movement of 1379 00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:39,619 capital goods and services, 1380 00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:41,869 which is kind of something that 1381 00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:44,089 you experience when you're traveling 1382 00:50:44,090 --> 00:50:46,609 through Europe, that you don't have to 1383 00:50:46,610 --> 00:50:48,739 show your I.D., that you 1384 00:50:48,740 --> 00:50:50,809 don't have to exchange currency and so 1385 00:50:50,810 --> 00:50:52,939 on. And that is really kind of making 1386 00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:54,029 people's lives easier. 1387 00:50:54,030 --> 00:50:55,699 But obviously, if you look at these four 1388 00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:57,889 freedoms, they're really kind of tilted 1389 00:50:57,890 --> 00:51:00,589 in favor of economic freedoms. 1390 00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:02,899 And what I want to propose is that 1391 00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:05,059 we should push for freedom, 1392 00:51:05,060 --> 00:51:06,889 so to say, of freedom of movement for 1393 00:51:06,890 --> 00:51:08,029 information. 1394 00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:10,249 And if we 1395 00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:12,379 call for the European Union 1396 00:51:12,380 --> 00:51:14,599 to to institute a right for 1397 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,149 people in Europe to access culture across 1398 00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:19,489 national borders, I think the EU 1399 00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:21,319 politicians will have a really, really 1400 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,049 difficult time to say no to that. 1401 00:51:24,050 --> 00:51:26,209 But, well, if 1402 00:51:26,210 --> 00:51:27,949 they don't want to look like complete 1403 00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:30,529 hypocrites. So I think it is our task 1404 00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:32,689 at this point to make the 1405 00:51:32,690 --> 00:51:35,029 EU more than an economic 1406 00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:37,129 union and really enhance 1407 00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:38,839 the fundamental rights and freedom 1408 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,699 dimension of the European Union. 1409 00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:42,859 But it's our responsibility to actually 1410 00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:45,139 push for that and to make that happen. 1411 00:51:45,140 --> 00:51:46,140 So. 1412 00:51:53,980 --> 00:51:56,439 So that's it from me for now. 1413 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,779 Thanks a lot for listening and 1414 00:51:58,780 --> 00:52:00,909 yeah, I will be around for questions 1415 00:52:00,910 --> 00:52:02,709 here or later. 1416 00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:04,389 Thank you so much for the great 1417 00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:05,379 inspirational talk. 1418 00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:06,380 Thank you, Yuya. 1419 00:52:11,250 --> 00:52:13,319 Now we have to 1420 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,299 have like ten minutes left for questions 1421 00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:17,189 and answers before we come to the 1422 00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:18,629 questions answered. You mentioned that 1423 00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:19,829 you're going to give a workshop. 1424 00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:22,109 You want to start 1425 00:52:22,110 --> 00:52:23,879 today at five. 1426 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,039 I think it's kind of really talking 1427 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,259 about the draft report that I 1428 00:52:28,260 --> 00:52:30,329 am writing right now where I want to 1429 00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:31,889 collect some input from you. 1430 00:52:31,890 --> 00:52:33,389 Also, strategic advice. 1431 00:52:33,390 --> 00:52:34,919 You know, if you have particular things 1432 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,199 that really should be in this report, 1433 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,419 come to the workshop and 1434 00:52:39,420 --> 00:52:41,729 discuss it with me. It's from five to six 1435 00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:43,109 in room B.. 1436 00:52:43,110 --> 00:52:44,759 All right. Five to six in room B. 1437 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,469 Today. If you want to give some input to 1438 00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:48,239 Julia now, it's time for questions and 1439 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:49,949 answers. We have six microphones in the 1440 00:52:49,950 --> 00:52:51,479 room. If you have a question, please line 1441 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,409 up at the microphones. 1442 00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:53,579 We start with a question from the 1443 00:52:53,580 --> 00:52:54,580 Internet. 1444 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,389 How does the freedom of Panorama 1445 00:52:57,390 --> 00:52:59,849 and Compass and Compass 1446 00:52:59,850 --> 00:53:01,739 taking photos of the Eiffel Tower? 1447 00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:05,159 That's a good question. 1448 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,289 So, well, France does 1449 00:53:07,290 --> 00:53:09,629 not have a freedom of Panorama Room, 1450 00:53:09,630 --> 00:53:11,699 but the Eiffel Tower is 1451 00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:13,859 pretty old. So the design of the 1452 00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:16,229 Eiffel Tower is in the public domain 1453 00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:18,479 because the architect, thankfully, died 1454 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:19,480 long ago. 1455 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,549 I really hope for a system where I don't 1456 00:53:23,550 --> 00:53:25,259 have to say such things anymore. 1457 00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:27,119 But however. No, you can't. 1458 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,399 Well, you can use a picture of the Eiffel 1459 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,589 Tower that you take during the day. 1460 00:53:31,590 --> 00:53:33,299 You can't take one that you take during 1461 00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:35,009 the night because the light show that 1462 00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:37,409 lights up the Eiffel Tower 1463 00:53:37,410 --> 00:53:39,719 is made by an artist who is still 1464 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:41,759 alive, I think, or at least not dead long 1465 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,009 enough. So, 1466 00:53:44,010 --> 00:53:46,109 yeah, the answer is 1467 00:53:46,110 --> 00:53:47,110 depends. 1468 00:53:47,790 --> 00:53:48,790 All right. 1469 00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:54,290 Next question from microphone to 1470 00:53:55,610 --> 00:53:57,979 hello, I'm 1471 00:53:57,980 --> 00:53:59,779 kind of more pessimistic about the 1472 00:53:59,780 --> 00:54:02,029 ongoing reform for 1473 00:54:02,030 --> 00:54:04,399 two reasons. One reason is because 1474 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,859 we live in a world constrained by 1475 00:54:06,860 --> 00:54:08,749 convention and troops treaty. 1476 00:54:08,750 --> 00:54:10,729 So basically we have to assume that we 1477 00:54:10,730 --> 00:54:13,009 cooperate is by default and 1478 00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:15,289 we cannot put any restrictions like maybe 1479 00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:17,449 registration and and similar things which 1480 00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:19,069 could improve our life. 1481 00:54:19,070 --> 00:54:21,349 So my my first concern 1482 00:54:21,350 --> 00:54:23,569 is that a synchronizing copyright 1483 00:54:23,570 --> 00:54:26,209 across the EU will basically 1484 00:54:26,210 --> 00:54:28,459 scicluna psychoanalyzing 1485 00:54:28,460 --> 00:54:30,379 exceptions down. 1486 00:54:30,380 --> 00:54:33,409 So what you spoke with, you will be also 1487 00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:35,959 down to some common level, maybe five 1488 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,019 exceptions out of 20. 1489 00:54:39,020 --> 00:54:40,759 But my first concern and the second 1490 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,099 concern is because so many MEPs 1491 00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:45,199 I spoke to are very fixated 1492 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,199 about idea of of single digital market 1493 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,659 and as an agenda for growth 1494 00:54:50,660 --> 00:54:52,669 and basically what is usually attached to 1495 00:54:52,670 --> 00:54:54,259 it. And I think this is much more 1496 00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:56,509 important priority growth for 1497 00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:58,729 the EU even than the freedoms we talk 1498 00:54:58,730 --> 00:55:01,429 about. So we will be 1499 00:55:01,430 --> 00:55:03,619 promoting exclusive rights, not 1500 00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:05,809 only copyright as a as a new way 1501 00:55:05,810 --> 00:55:08,209 forward for for Europe 1502 00:55:08,210 --> 00:55:10,459 and employing unemployed 1503 00:55:10,460 --> 00:55:12,769 people and young people in and of 1504 00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:13,699 itself. 1505 00:55:13,700 --> 00:55:15,919 So my concern is how 1506 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,199 we control this agenda, and I'm 1507 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:19,879 afraid that it may. 1508 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,009 But the freedom idea is 1509 00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:24,319 good, but may not be strong enough 1510 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,399 to control their growth 1511 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,519 agenda. Think you? 1512 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,019 I think they're absolutely valid 1513 00:55:30,020 --> 00:55:32,539 concerns. I've kind of limited myself 1514 00:55:32,540 --> 00:55:35,299 to actually not that radical proposals 1515 00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:37,429 kind of making the copyright 1516 00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:40,159 exceptions mandatory or reducing 1517 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,439 the copyright terms from 70 years after 1518 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,719 death back to 50 years after death 1519 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:47,209 is kind of the maximum that we can do 1520 00:55:47,210 --> 00:55:49,099 in the international treaties that we 1521 00:55:49,100 --> 00:55:50,629 have already signed up to. 1522 00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:52,759 But I think we should still absolutely do 1523 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,889 it. Some issues will be 1524 00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:56,419 a bit more complicated, like, for 1525 00:55:56,420 --> 00:56:00,019 example, some international treaties 1526 00:56:00,020 --> 00:56:02,599 already in place, but also the upcoming 1527 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,659 Seeta treaty say that there has to be 1528 00:56:05,660 --> 00:56:07,819 some way of restricting people's 1529 00:56:07,820 --> 00:56:10,219 ability to circumvent 1530 00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:11,899 digital rights management. 1531 00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:13,789 But I think we can still address this 1532 00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:15,050 because even though 1533 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,739 we may not be able to completely get rid 1534 00:56:18,740 --> 00:56:20,869 of DRM, I think what we can do with this 1535 00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:23,989 reform is to make it legal to 1536 00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:26,479 to circumvent DRM if you are using 1537 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:27,829 a copyright exception. 1538 00:56:27,830 --> 00:56:29,749 So I don't think this would violate 1539 00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:30,829 international treaties. 1540 00:56:30,830 --> 00:56:32,899 But of course, if you have a copyright 1541 00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:35,359 exception for private copying, 1542 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,849 that's pretty much anything. 1543 00:56:37,850 --> 00:56:40,759 So I think it would really solve, 1544 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,739 well, 80 percent of the problem, I guess. 1545 00:56:44,510 --> 00:56:45,469 Yeah. 1546 00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:47,749 I mean, with with the idea 1547 00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:49,879 of a European copyright, of course, this 1548 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,039 is only viable if 1549 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,779 the proposal that comes out of the 1550 00:56:53,780 --> 00:56:55,969 commission is actually any good and not 1551 00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:58,489 saying support it no matter what. 1552 00:56:58,490 --> 00:57:01,049 We don't know if it's actually going to 1553 00:57:01,050 --> 00:57:03,439 to be that, uh, to 1554 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,599 to really propose this level of 1555 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:06,499 harmonization. 1556 00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:08,179 Maybe they will go for something a lot 1557 00:57:08,180 --> 00:57:10,339 more careful, but really to 1558 00:57:10,340 --> 00:57:12,859 look at it and to kind of, uh, 1559 00:57:12,860 --> 00:57:14,419 make up your mind when you see it, 1560 00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:16,669 whether it's worth fighting for, 1561 00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:18,379 for improving this or whether we should 1562 00:57:18,380 --> 00:57:20,839 just try to to vote it down. 1563 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,909 I think we're not going to get the chance 1564 00:57:22,910 --> 00:57:25,069 to reform this, uh, this 1565 00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:27,439 copyright system for another 10, 15 1566 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,359 years if we don't do it now. 1567 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,489 So I really want to take this chance and 1568 00:57:31,490 --> 00:57:33,169 to take whatever comes out of the 1569 00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:35,209 commission and try to turn it into 1570 00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:36,210 something good. 1571 00:57:37,790 --> 00:57:40,069 The digital single market thing. 1572 00:57:40,070 --> 00:57:42,419 I think our it's not, 1573 00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:43,420 uh. 1574 00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:46,529 Completely, uh, coincidence 1575 00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:48,599 that companies like 1576 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,909 Netflix are coming from the US 1577 00:57:50,910 --> 00:57:53,009 and rolling out their service 1578 00:57:53,010 --> 00:57:55,259 one European country at a time, 1579 00:57:55,260 --> 00:57:57,299 because I think a European startup simply 1580 00:57:57,300 --> 00:57:59,309 wouldn't have the capacity to run at a 1581 00:57:59,310 --> 00:58:01,439 loss for several years and to 1582 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,509 clear a copyright in 28 1583 00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:04,469 different systems. 1584 00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:06,419 It creates a lot of overhead. 1585 00:58:06,420 --> 00:58:08,609 And this can only be done by a company 1586 00:58:08,610 --> 00:58:10,949 that already has a functioning market 1587 00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:12,449 back in the United States. 1588 00:58:12,450 --> 00:58:14,579 So I think there is also an economic 1589 00:58:14,580 --> 00:58:16,769 argument for for going in the direction 1590 00:58:16,770 --> 00:58:18,899 of allowing certain ways of 1591 00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:20,999 dealing with copyright. 1592 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,349 There are I think the the Accademia 1593 00:58:23,350 --> 00:58:25,469 are really on our side on this. 1594 00:58:25,470 --> 00:58:27,689 They show that people do not spend 1595 00:58:27,690 --> 00:58:30,089 less on culture because they have access 1596 00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:31,139 to the Internet. 1597 00:58:31,140 --> 00:58:33,419 They show that the people who do the most 1598 00:58:33,420 --> 00:58:35,189 file sharing are actually the people who 1599 00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:37,589 spend the most also on 1600 00:58:37,590 --> 00:58:39,639 paying for cultural works. 1601 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:40,640 And 1602 00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:45,749 so I think, of course, 1603 00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:47,639 simply having the facts on your side is 1604 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,949 not necessarily going to help you to win 1605 00:58:49,950 --> 00:58:51,030 the political battle. 1606 00:58:52,170 --> 00:58:54,299 Yeah, I think the freedom is 1607 00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:56,339 I think maybe one of the ideas that we 1608 00:58:56,340 --> 00:58:58,469 can use, particularly in this time, 1609 00:58:58,470 --> 00:59:00,569 where there is a lot of criticism of the 1610 00:59:00,570 --> 00:59:02,279 European institutions and they really 1611 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,049 have to give us something because they 1612 00:59:04,050 --> 00:59:05,939 know that if they come out with a bad 1613 00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:07,559 proposal, they're going to have another 1614 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,789 actor on their hands. 1615 00:59:08,790 --> 00:59:10,499 And nobody in the European Commission 1616 00:59:10,500 --> 00:59:12,629 wants that. So I think we've already laid 1617 00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:14,729 the groundwork to to 1618 00:59:14,730 --> 00:59:17,039 turn this into something good. 1619 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,269 All right, thanks. 1620 00:59:18,270 --> 00:59:19,619 We'll take the very last question from 1621 00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:21,209 the Internet. And I hope I understanding, 1622 00:59:21,210 --> 00:59:22,709 since everybody else has the chance to 1623 00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:24,209 catch you there later and ask her and the 1624 00:59:24,210 --> 00:59:25,629 people who follow in the stream don't. 1625 00:59:25,630 --> 00:59:27,749 So sorry if you didn't have the time 1626 00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:28,949 now to ask your question. Last question 1627 00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:30,179 from the Internet. 1628 00:59:30,180 --> 00:59:31,979 What do you think? How long does it take 1629 00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:34,169 to bring an EU wide copyright? 1630 00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:38,369 Well, to pass it into law? 1631 00:59:38,370 --> 00:59:41,699 Well, it would be proposed 1632 00:59:41,700 --> 00:59:44,249 if we're very optimistic next 1633 00:59:44,250 --> 00:59:46,499 year, in 2015, it would 1634 00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,449 take maybe three or four years to be 1635 00:59:48,450 --> 00:59:50,939 adopted, another two years of transition 1636 00:59:50,940 --> 00:59:51,940 period. 1637 00:59:52,830 --> 00:59:54,959 And I think you 1638 00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,029 would actually kind of depending on 1639 00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:58,829 the level of harmonization, is it a 1640 00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:01,829 European copyright title that only 1641 01:00:01,830 --> 01:00:04,259 encompasses kind of the commercial 1642 01:00:04,260 --> 01:00:06,539 copyright? But or would it also 1643 01:00:06,540 --> 01:00:09,229 encompass the author's rights? 1644 01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:11,459 Um, that would depend 1645 01:00:11,460 --> 01:00:13,079 on on how long it would take. 1646 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,479 But I think the fundamental thing is 1647 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,609 you can't really shorten copyright 1648 01:00:17,610 --> 01:00:19,499 terms on works that already exist. 1649 01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:21,599 You can't really take away rights from 1650 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,389 authors that, um, 1651 01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:26,909 that they already have by the European 1652 01:00:26,910 --> 01:00:29,429 Union. This is kind of, uh, 1653 01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:31,559 would probably be a fundamental rights 1654 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,149 issue that would have to be dealt with 1655 01:00:33,150 --> 01:00:34,499 also on a national level. 1656 01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:36,659 So for a European copyright 1657 01:00:36,660 --> 01:00:38,519 to actually kind of take effect in the 1658 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,679 way that everything is 1659 01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,869 run under the new European copyright 1660 01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:44,999 system, well, uh, take the 1661 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,489 lifespan of the people who are alive now 1662 01:00:47,490 --> 01:00:49,709 plus 70 years, and 1663 01:00:49,710 --> 01:00:51,780 then you're probably done, I guess. 1664 01:00:52,860 --> 01:00:54,989 All right. Thank you so much for the talk 1665 01:00:54,990 --> 01:00:56,309 again. And thank you for taking 1666 01:00:56,310 --> 01:00:57,449 questions. 1667 01:00:57,450 --> 01:00:59,279 Remember to come back at five for the 1668 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,439 workshop and runby five to six. 1669 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:02,790 Thank you so much, Julia.