0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/410 Thanks! 1 00:00:09,370 --> 00:00:11,710 Thank you. Oh, I'm on good. 2 00:00:14,540 --> 00:00:16,849 Can I tell you something, 3 00:00:16,850 --> 00:00:18,949 just, you know, in private, you 4 00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:20,089 and me and the Internet, 5 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:23,839 it's kind of intimidating standing 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,599 up here with this full 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:27,769 hall and 8 00:00:28,850 --> 00:00:30,469 I don't know, nobody ever mentioned it, 9 00:00:30,470 --> 00:00:32,810 but it's actually a little bit scary. 10 00:00:34,340 --> 00:00:35,340 It is. 11 00:00:42,900 --> 00:00:45,269 But I guess it's my own fault, 12 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:47,369 cause last year I 13 00:00:47,370 --> 00:00:50,069 spoke over and Holga about 14 00:00:50,070 --> 00:00:52,199 Soviet encryption and World War Two 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,819 and I got a lot of very positive 16 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:55,919 feedback. And people were like 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,739 more historical topics, please. 18 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:00,869 So I guess the CCC thought 19 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:02,430 that would be a good idea and 20 00:01:03,870 --> 00:01:05,699 promoted me to haul to 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:07,980 to speak about. 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,769 To speak about history once again, 23 00:01:16,180 --> 00:01:18,519 unfortunately, we only have 30 minutes 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,649 tonight, so I would love to 25 00:01:20,650 --> 00:01:22,899 go into much more detail about 26 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,719 technical stuff, 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,789 but I'd have to I 28 00:01:27,790 --> 00:01:29,169 have to shorten it a little bit. 29 00:01:29,170 --> 00:01:31,239 I'll try to talk about 30 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,739 my topic for 20 minutes. 31 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:34,899 So we have ten minutes for 32 00:01:34,900 --> 00:01:36,579 Q&A afterwards. 33 00:01:36,580 --> 00:01:38,169 And if that's not enough, we can go 34 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:41,109 somewhere and have a talk. 35 00:01:41,110 --> 00:01:43,449 So now let's see if 36 00:01:43,450 --> 00:01:45,099 this. Yes, it works. 37 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,229 What I would like to 38 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:49,689 talk about, first 39 00:01:49,690 --> 00:01:51,759 of all, I would like 40 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,979 to introduce to 41 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:56,229 you a kind 42 00:01:56,230 --> 00:01:58,719 of living drone used 43 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,699 extensively in World War One and World 44 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:02,079 War Two. 45 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,670 Pigeons, as you can see, 46 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:07,809 used as messengers and also as spies 47 00:02:07,810 --> 00:02:09,939 to take aerial photographs of enemy 48 00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:11,499 territory. 49 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:13,689 Secondly, I'd like to very 50 00:02:13,690 --> 00:02:15,909 quickly elaborate 51 00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:18,309 on animals use 52 00:02:18,310 --> 00:02:20,859 to deliver and drop bombs 53 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:23,499 on enemy enemies 54 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:25,779 in World War Two, such as bats, 55 00:02:25,780 --> 00:02:28,089 cats and dogs, and finally 56 00:02:28,090 --> 00:02:30,160 go into the present situation 57 00:02:31,390 --> 00:02:33,669 and talk about things 58 00:02:33,670 --> 00:02:36,219 that are being worked on right now, 59 00:02:36,220 --> 00:02:39,009 such as cyborg drones, 60 00:02:39,010 --> 00:02:41,919 actually surgically altered animals 61 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:44,349 and ask a few questions about 62 00:02:44,350 --> 00:02:46,839 what these animals might be doing. 63 00:02:49,070 --> 00:02:52,229 A couple of words about pigeons, 64 00:02:52,230 --> 00:02:54,659 so-called homing pigeons are 65 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:57,029 a variety of domestic pigeons 66 00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:59,489 that are bred especially 67 00:02:59,490 --> 00:03:01,859 to fly very fast over 68 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:03,149 very long distances. 69 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,079 And these pigeons, what they do, 70 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,029 basically, they fly home. 71 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:11,579 They have an innate homing ability. 72 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:13,739 They always fly back 73 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:15,839 to their home nests, also known as 74 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,009 their pigeon loft. 75 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,389 One more term, a 76 00:03:21,390 --> 00:03:23,729 person who breeds and keeps these pigeons 77 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:25,799 is a pigeon fancier because 78 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,059 he fancies pigeons. 79 00:03:29,290 --> 00:03:31,509 So pigeons 80 00:03:31,510 --> 00:03:34,149 have been used as messengers since 81 00:03:34,150 --> 00:03:35,439 ancient times. 82 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,699 Let's not go into that. 83 00:03:36,700 --> 00:03:39,039 Let's go back one hundred 84 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,139 years to World War One, starting in 85 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:43,929 1914, where communication 86 00:03:43,930 --> 00:03:46,599 was a bit different from today. 87 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,909 Radio communication and also wired 88 00:03:48,910 --> 00:03:50,979 communication was still very crude and 89 00:03:50,980 --> 00:03:51,980 unreliable. 90 00:03:53,140 --> 00:03:55,299 Imagine you're going 91 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:57,879 into enemy territory with your troops, 92 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,859 you're going into battle, and you need 93 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:01,959 means of communication with your back 94 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:02,949 supply. 95 00:04:02,950 --> 00:04:05,109 You'll have to actually carry big 96 00:04:05,110 --> 00:04:07,299 rolls of wire and string wire 97 00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:09,909 around to communicate. 98 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:12,189 And obviously that can be cut 99 00:04:12,190 --> 00:04:14,619 once you get into a really tough 100 00:04:14,620 --> 00:04:16,299 battle situation that's not going to 101 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:17,199 work. 102 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,958 But something that did work 103 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:21,699 was pigeons. 104 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:24,249 Pigeons were used by all countries 105 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:25,250 in World War One, 106 00:04:26,830 --> 00:04:28,929 kept behind the front lines 107 00:04:28,930 --> 00:04:31,029 in these mobile lofts 108 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:33,369 and then carried into battle. 109 00:04:35,980 --> 00:04:38,620 In these kinds of wicker baskets 110 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,799 and what you did, once you're in 111 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,429 the trench, you need to get a message 112 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:46,479 to your back supply. 113 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,319 You take out the pigeon, you write a 114 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,649 little note, you attach it to the pigeon 115 00:04:50,650 --> 00:04:52,089 and send it off. 116 00:04:52,090 --> 00:04:54,339 And these pigeons were so reliable 117 00:04:54,340 --> 00:04:56,469 that about 95 percent of all 118 00:04:56,470 --> 00:04:57,790 messages got through. 119 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:03,039 And they were so important that 120 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,229 in 1914, the French army alone 121 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:07,599 kept 72 of these mobile 122 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,509 pigeon lofts behind the front. 123 00:05:10,510 --> 00:05:12,909 The United States Army alone used 124 00:05:12,910 --> 00:05:15,819 about 600 pigeons in France in 1917 125 00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:17,139 and 18. 126 00:05:17,140 --> 00:05:19,209 And even more so in 127 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:21,219 World War Two, the United Kingdom used 128 00:05:21,220 --> 00:05:23,470 about two hundred fifty thousand pigeons. 129 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,649 And it was so important that 130 00:05:26,650 --> 00:05:28,899 you had these kinds of posters don't 131 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:31,029 shoot the carrier pigeon because it would 132 00:05:31,030 --> 00:05:32,499 be a broken link and vital 133 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:33,550 communications. 134 00:05:34,630 --> 00:05:37,089 And the United Kingdom actually had fines 135 00:05:37,090 --> 00:05:39,279 for killing, wounding or molesting homing 136 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:41,469 pigeons six months 137 00:05:41,470 --> 00:05:43,629 in prison or one hundred pounds, 138 00:05:43,630 --> 00:05:45,639 which was a lot of money back then. 139 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:51,279 Very quickly, one 140 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,349 pigeon which 141 00:05:53,350 --> 00:05:55,929 was actually awarded the French 142 00:05:55,930 --> 00:05:58,779 Quarter G&A after the war 143 00:05:58,780 --> 00:06:01,079 was Cheramie, which is French for 144 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,589 a dear friend. 145 00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:05,619 She was actually female, but 146 00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:07,899 it was only discovered after she died 147 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:09,969 that she was had been female. 148 00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:12,339 She delivered crucial messages despite 149 00:06:12,340 --> 00:06:15,309 being shot by German troops. 150 00:06:15,310 --> 00:06:17,529 She say she saved 151 00:06:17,530 --> 00:06:20,019 two hundred American lives 152 00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:22,419 of American troops trapped behind German 153 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:24,849 lines, surrounded by German troops 154 00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:26,619 who could not communicate in any other 155 00:06:26,620 --> 00:06:28,719 way, and who were 156 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,909 actually caught under a friendly fire 157 00:06:30,910 --> 00:06:32,799 in October 1918. 158 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,289 So all they could do was 159 00:06:35,290 --> 00:06:37,690 send a little message. 160 00:06:38,740 --> 00:06:40,419 I don't know if you can read it. 161 00:06:40,420 --> 00:06:42,489 We are along the road parallel 162 00:06:42,490 --> 00:06:44,679 to seventy six point four. 163 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,989 Our artillery is dropping a barrage 164 00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:48,009 directly on us. 165 00:06:48,010 --> 00:06:49,570 For heaven's sake, stop it. 166 00:06:51,610 --> 00:06:53,739 And they send off Cheramie 167 00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:54,789 with this message. 168 00:06:54,790 --> 00:06:57,459 Sharoni took one hour to 169 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:00,039 her home loft, delivered the message, 170 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,870 and the American troops could stop 171 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:05,499 shooting their own people behind 172 00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:07,959 enemy lines and find a way to evacuate 173 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:08,960 them. 174 00:07:12,340 --> 00:07:14,289 So as you can see, sometimes these 175 00:07:14,290 --> 00:07:16,389 pigeons were shot down, 176 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:18,429 they were wounded and they were actually 177 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:20,799 captured as prisoners of war. 178 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,800 Here you have. 179 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:26,279 Captured German war pigeons 180 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,469 in a victory parade in New York City 181 00:07:28,470 --> 00:07:29,610 in 1919. 182 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:41,009 When the Second World War came 183 00:07:41,010 --> 00:07:43,199 around, pigeons were still used 184 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,629 for messaging, although communications 185 00:07:45,630 --> 00:07:48,089 had improved, but 186 00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:50,339 armies started thinking about other 187 00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:52,439 ways of using animals in 188 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,869 their war effort, especially 189 00:07:54,870 --> 00:07:57,239 in the United States after the Japanese 190 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,369 attack on Pearl Harbor in December 191 00:07:59,370 --> 00:08:00,370 1941. 192 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:04,859 People began to think about how 193 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:06,099 can we retaliate? 194 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:08,279 How can we find a way to bomb 195 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,469 Japanese cities just like they 196 00:08:10,470 --> 00:08:11,579 bombed Pearl Harbor? 197 00:08:11,580 --> 00:08:13,319 We need to do something. 198 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,749 And a civilian who was actually 199 00:08:15,750 --> 00:08:18,779 a dentist had a brilliant idea. 200 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:21,119 He proposed to the president, which was 201 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,489 obviously normal at that time, 202 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:25,799 that he had found a way to 203 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,949 firebomb Japanese cities. 204 00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:30,389 And the answer is. 205 00:08:32,409 --> 00:08:33,429 Bat bombs. 206 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:36,969 This was actually 207 00:08:38,890 --> 00:08:41,199 researched not in that exact 208 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,389 way, but the United 209 00:08:43,390 --> 00:08:46,539 States started a military project 210 00:08:46,540 --> 00:08:49,779 thinking about ways to use bats. 211 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:52,299 The idea was find lots of bats, 212 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,789 put them into hibernation by cooling 213 00:08:54,790 --> 00:08:57,069 them down, clip 214 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:59,529 a tiny little incendiary bomb 215 00:08:59,530 --> 00:09:01,779 to their chest, release 216 00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:05,019 them over Japanese cities. 217 00:09:05,020 --> 00:09:06,969 They are going to wake up. 218 00:09:06,970 --> 00:09:09,039 And then as bats do, they will 219 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,379 try to find a hiding place 220 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:13,899 and hopefully hide in the attics 221 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:16,119 of Japanese houses, which at that 222 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,279 time were mainly constructed of 223 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,839 wood and paper. 224 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,649 And this actually worked. 225 00:09:21,650 --> 00:09:23,859 It worked really well because 226 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:26,349 one day on a military 227 00:09:26,350 --> 00:09:28,479 base in New Mexico where this project was 228 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,759 being researched, a couple 229 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,819 of bats with live bombs 230 00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:35,949 attached to themselves were 231 00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:37,179 accidentally released 232 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,449 and they found a hiding 233 00:09:40,450 --> 00:09:42,369 place under a fuel tank. 234 00:09:53,110 --> 00:09:54,910 And the military base burned down 235 00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:58,569 eventually, this project was, 236 00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:00,069 although. 237 00:10:00,070 --> 00:10:02,109 Successful, superseded by the atomic 238 00:10:02,110 --> 00:10:04,089 bombs dropped on Japanese cities, as you 239 00:10:04,090 --> 00:10:05,499 know, in 1945. 240 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,879 Another idea, which very 241 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,249 shortly I'd like to mention was 242 00:10:14,250 --> 00:10:16,559 the Soviet Union training dogs 243 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:19,829 to carry bombs under 244 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:22,049 German tanks during World War 245 00:10:22,050 --> 00:10:24,449 Two. They were trained 246 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:26,669 with food, put under tanks to 247 00:10:26,670 --> 00:10:27,599 run there. 248 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,179 And eventually 249 00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:32,489 they had these kinds of bomb strapped 250 00:10:32,490 --> 00:10:34,649 to their bodies and they were supposed 251 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:36,659 to run under German tanks and explode. 252 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:39,959 This did not work well because in 253 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,879 actual battle situations, the dogs were 254 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,339 confused and scared of the noise 255 00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:46,139 and the moving tanks. 256 00:10:46,140 --> 00:10:48,239 Some of them ran back to their 257 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,309 trainers and their are timers went off 258 00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:51,479 and they exploded. 259 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,699 Some of them attacked Soviet 260 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,799 tanks because they knew how 261 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,989 these tanks were supposed to smell, 262 00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:59,779 because Soviet tanks ran on diesel, 263 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:02,969 German tanks ran on gasoline, 264 00:11:02,970 --> 00:11:04,539 and they were used to diesel tanks. 265 00:11:04,540 --> 00:11:06,059 So not very good. 266 00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:10,979 Nonetheless, this project 267 00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:13,319 was followed 268 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,179 until 1996 in Russia 269 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:17,580 for whatever reason. 270 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:23,809 One more idea during World War Two 271 00:11:23,810 --> 00:11:25,879 was cats, if you can use 272 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,489 dogs, why not use cats? 273 00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:30,619 And the single idea 274 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:32,689 behind this project was 275 00:11:32,690 --> 00:11:35,119 cats don't like water, do they? 276 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,669 So how about we put a cat 277 00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:39,979 with a bomb next to 278 00:11:39,980 --> 00:11:41,989 me, just drop it in the ocean next to the 279 00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:44,389 enemy's ships and the cat, because it 280 00:11:44,390 --> 00:11:46,429 doesn't like water, is going to jump onto 281 00:11:46,430 --> 00:11:49,039 the ship and then explode. 282 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,489 So what do you think? 283 00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:54,490 Good idea. 284 00:11:56,190 --> 00:11:57,190 No. 285 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,119 Those poor cats drowned 286 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:14,579 moving to the present. 287 00:12:14,580 --> 00:12:16,570 Let's take a step to the present. 288 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,279 The thing about all these projects 289 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,889 in the past 100 years 290 00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:24,959 is that for the longest time, 291 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,399 the use of animals 292 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:30,329 as these kinds of drones, delivering 293 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:32,639 messages, dropping bombs, starting 294 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,249 fires was always limited 295 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:38,189 to a creature's natural behavior. 296 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:40,379 And what you could train an animal to 297 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:41,490 do, you can. 298 00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:45,249 In a very limited way, you can train 299 00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:47,379 pigeons, you can train dogs, 300 00:12:47,380 --> 00:12:48,380 cats, not so much, 301 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,059 but there was also there 302 00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:53,979 was always this limitation. 303 00:12:53,980 --> 00:12:56,199 For example, these pigeons, they only fly 304 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,049 home. You cannot send them anywhere. 305 00:12:59,050 --> 00:13:01,629 But as of 2014, 306 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:03,399 scientists are actually working on 307 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,589 finding a way to remedy 308 00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:07,899 that, working on these 309 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,239 kinds of insects 310 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,819 you see here, attaching 311 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:15,519 tiny electrodes to the insects 312 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,619 from a very early moment in their 313 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:19,779 lives and are 314 00:13:19,780 --> 00:13:22,599 monitoring the electrical signals 315 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,879 these insects use during 316 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,349 flight. 317 00:13:26,350 --> 00:13:28,479 And the idea behind that is that 318 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,729 eventually scientists are hoping to 319 00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:33,190 reverse engineer this and. 320 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:37,359 Use these same electrical 321 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,999 signals to steer 322 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,119 these insects in a certain direction 323 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,699 so they could be used, for example, 324 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:48,069 as researchers 325 00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:50,379 say, for search and rescue 326 00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:51,380 missions. 327 00:13:52,690 --> 00:13:53,690 Yes, sure. 328 00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:56,889 Search and rescue thing 329 00:13:56,890 --> 00:13:59,349 is the questions that all 330 00:13:59,350 --> 00:14:01,479 these projects involving 331 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,210 animals pose. 332 00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:09,859 If you want to use insects 333 00:14:09,860 --> 00:14:12,109 for search and rescue missions, what else 334 00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:14,509 can you use them for, what other 335 00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:17,419 animals can use in the same way? 336 00:14:17,420 --> 00:14:20,029 There are, of course, ethical questions 337 00:14:20,030 --> 00:14:21,199 of animal protection. 338 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,179 Who's responsible, who's morally 339 00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:25,789 responsible for surgically 340 00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:28,039 altering these animals and 341 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,199 using them possibly 342 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,779 for malevolent purposes. 343 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,659 And the situation as of now 344 00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:39,879 is that already seven 345 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,529 years ago, Charles Higgins of the 346 00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:43,509 University of Arizona, who works with 347 00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:46,149 insects, predicted 348 00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:48,459 that around 20, 17 349 00:14:48,460 --> 00:14:51,249 to 20 to hybrid computers 350 00:14:51,250 --> 00:14:54,369 using on the one hand, 351 00:14:54,370 --> 00:14:56,799 computers, on the other hand, live tissue 352 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,510 would actually be operational. 353 00:14:59,710 --> 00:15:01,809 And we're talking obviously 354 00:15:01,810 --> 00:15:02,810 about. 355 00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:07,329 For example, a computerized 356 00:15:07,330 --> 00:15:09,609 hand, but also 357 00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:11,679 about these kinds of insects 358 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,139 and other animals being 359 00:15:14,140 --> 00:15:15,140 controlled 360 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:17,710 beyond their own means, 361 00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:22,479 somebody yesterday somebody 362 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,639 sent me a very interesting 363 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,249 link, a video about 364 00:15:27,250 --> 00:15:29,739 a guy who turned his dead cat 365 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:31,749 into a helicopter. 366 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:33,909 It's hilarious, but 367 00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:36,069 I can't show it because of time 368 00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:37,599 reasons, because we only have five 369 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,339 minutes. I'm almost done. 370 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:41,679 I'll include the link with the slides. 371 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,680 I'll upload it. 372 00:15:43,870 --> 00:15:45,939 So this guy had his dead 373 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:48,159 cat stuffed and prepared and 374 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,509 turned it into a helicopter. 375 00:15:49,510 --> 00:15:51,079 It flies. 376 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,240 And this video 377 00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:55,749 poses the question, what is the 378 00:15:55,750 --> 00:15:58,119 difference between shoes made of cow 379 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,070 and helicopters made of cats? 380 00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:03,619 Many of us eat animals. 381 00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:05,679 And so where's the 382 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,879 limit? Where's the 383 00:16:08,110 --> 00:16:10,089 where's the difference between eating 384 00:16:10,090 --> 00:16:12,279 cows and using insects, 385 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,739 dogs, pigeons, bats 386 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:16,929 for other purposes, 387 00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:19,149 military purposes. 388 00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:20,150 For example, 389 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:23,979 as of 2014, 390 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:26,139 the CIA, they just tweeted 391 00:16:26,140 --> 00:16:27,909 a couple of days ago that they are pigeon 392 00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:29,949 missions are still classified. 393 00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:32,439 Why what are they doing 394 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,659 still with these pigeons? 395 00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:37,029 The question is, who is working on what 396 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:38,030 right now? 397 00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:41,529 In an interview about drones last 398 00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:44,109 year in 2013, Noam Chomsky 399 00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:46,419 asked the question, if you look 400 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:48,789 at the public reports, you can imagine 401 00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:50,210 what the secret reports are. 402 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,559 So the question is, all 403 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,169 these things that can be researched 404 00:16:56,170 --> 00:16:57,820 that I could present here, 405 00:16:59,170 --> 00:17:01,389 how much of what is really being 406 00:17:01,390 --> 00:17:02,799 researched is that? 407 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,368 Thank you very much. 408 00:17:19,369 --> 00:17:21,379 We have a few minutes for Q&A, if you 409 00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:23,449 have any questions, please do line up at 410 00:17:23,450 --> 00:17:24,409 the hall microphones. 411 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:26,868 We have six of them on the ground level. 412 00:17:26,869 --> 00:17:28,338 Are there any questions from the 413 00:17:28,339 --> 00:17:29,339 Internet? No. 414 00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:35,340 Any questions from the audience? 415 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,299 No, go on, guys, 416 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:44,099 no, no questions, 417 00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:46,900 but 418 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,529 OK, we do have a question at microphone 419 00:17:52,530 --> 00:17:53,189 three. 420 00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:54,169 Yes, hello. 421 00:17:54,170 --> 00:17:56,309 Well, I 422 00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:58,559 was thinking, what does the, uh, 423 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,749 Geneva Convention say about the use 424 00:18:00,750 --> 00:18:01,769 of animals and war? 425 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,500 Or is it saying something about it? 426 00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:10,159 Question is, what does the Geneva 427 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,049 Convention say about this? 428 00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:15,989 I have to say, I have no idea 429 00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:18,119 or is there any of 430 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,579 wall rules that but I've 431 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:22,950 not come across anything, 432 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,159 does anybody is anybody 433 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,409 here into an expert 434 00:18:28,410 --> 00:18:29,669 on these kinds of 435 00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:33,179 are there any laws on using 436 00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:34,589 animals in these 437 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,459 the United States, 438 00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:40,109 the United States that never signed the 439 00:18:40,110 --> 00:18:41,619 Geneva Convention? 440 00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:43,979 They say they are following 441 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:45,159 that anyway. 442 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,369 Yeah, that's another that's another 443 00:18:47,370 --> 00:18:49,619 thing I 444 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:50,249 have to say. 445 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:52,619 I have I've I've come across 446 00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:54,419 these questions. 447 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:57,639 What are well. 448 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,039 What are the moral implications 449 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,289 of doing this to these animals, 450 00:19:02,290 --> 00:19:03,729 who is responsible? 451 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:05,919 I have not come across anything in 452 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,079 writing that would 453 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,629 actually regulate 454 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:11,559 this kind of thing. 455 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:12,670 You were saying something. 456 00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:17,129 In addition to the Geneva Conventions, 457 00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:19,469 wildlife in war zones, 458 00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:21,509 so that they should be included in the 459 00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:22,619 protection. OK. 460 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:26,469 Yes, the gentleman just 461 00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:28,539 said there is a draft 462 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:30,579 to the Geneva Convention about the 463 00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:33,729 protection of wildlife in war situations, 464 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:36,909 but it's not in 465 00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:38,979 the officially signed version 466 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:40,029 as of yet. 467 00:19:40,030 --> 00:19:41,349 Thank you. 468 00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:44,169 Another question from microphone number 469 00:19:44,170 --> 00:19:46,029 five, please. 470 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:48,099 Yeah, you mentioned pigeons 471 00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:49,809 that were used in World War One. 472 00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:52,569 And then there's the Olympic discipline, 473 00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:53,589 pigeon shooting. 474 00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:56,049 Is there any relationship between this? 475 00:19:57,310 --> 00:19:59,439 So does this Olympic 476 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,629 discipline or this kind of sports. 477 00:20:01,630 --> 00:20:03,759 Yeah. Was invented in World War 478 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,249 One because the enemies had to 479 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:07,450 shut the pigeons. 480 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,749 They shoot pigeons? 481 00:20:10,750 --> 00:20:11,769 Yeah, I think so. 482 00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:13,719 When when they were used as spies, they 483 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,159 should shoot them. 484 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,649 So is this where the sports 485 00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:19,659 discipline comes from? 486 00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:20,660 I'm shocked. 487 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,859 They shoot pigeons 488 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,469 in the Olympics. 489 00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:35,289 I mean, really live pigeons. 490 00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:37,479 Know it's forbidden 491 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,609 to shoot live pigeons for sports, but 492 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,219 they use solid pigeons. 493 00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:44,319 So they shoot something in the air and 494 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,629 it's called pigeons. 495 00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:49,439 I thought these were clay pigeons. 496 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,489 Yeah, it is. But is the. 497 00:20:51,490 --> 00:20:52,490 Oh, OK. 498 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,499 So so to be clear, they're 499 00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:06,299 not shooting live pigeons in the 500 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:07,349 Olympics. 501 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:09,580 Thank you. Oh, God, that's good. 502 00:21:11,850 --> 00:21:14,159 I think clay pigeon 503 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,289 shooting is actually older than 504 00:21:16,290 --> 00:21:17,290 World War One, 505 00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:19,949 but I would have to 506 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:22,829 look it up. 507 00:21:22,830 --> 00:21:23,799 Clay pigeons. 508 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,889 Yeah, no, I mean, sure. 509 00:21:25,890 --> 00:21:27,959 In World War One, you shot 510 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,299 down your enemies pigeons 511 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:31,919 whenever you saw them because everybody 512 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,089 was using them. So 513 00:21:34,650 --> 00:21:36,779 the troops knew that the enemy was 514 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:38,009 probably using pigeons. 515 00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:40,109 So if they saw pigeons rising 516 00:21:40,110 --> 00:21:42,329 up from the enemy's trenches, they try 517 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:43,259 to shoot him. 518 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:45,569 They also sometimes had falcons 519 00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:47,669 to hunt these pigeons and bring 520 00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:48,670 them down. 521 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,919 OK, we have another clay pigeon at six. 522 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:53,920 Please shoot 523 00:21:55,890 --> 00:21:57,089 him. 524 00:21:57,090 --> 00:21:59,699 How much of this cyborg moth 525 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:01,589 work is being done in the public domain? 526 00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:03,869 And how much of this neural 527 00:22:03,870 --> 00:22:05,849 interface work can be used to assist 528 00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:07,889 those with, say, neurodegenerative 529 00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:08,999 diseases? 530 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,759 Well, that's that's actually the point 531 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,960 behind all this 532 00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:16,439 part of it. It's 533 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,689 this is research 534 00:22:18,690 --> 00:22:20,459 that is publicly done. 535 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,599 I believe it's the University 536 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,759 of North Carolina. 537 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,859 It's working on it as well as 538 00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:30,299 the University of Arizona. 539 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:32,699 Professor Charles Higgins 540 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:33,749 is doing this research. 541 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:35,220 And, of course, it's 542 00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:40,679 one part is, as it 543 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,259 is said, to to use these insects 544 00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:46,139 in search and rescue missions where 545 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,719 humans cannot go in to gather information 546 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,629 about catastrophes, earthquakes 547 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:52,919 and stuff like that. 548 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,139 But it's obviously 549 00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:57,509 technically very similar to 550 00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:59,819 the research being done to, for example, 551 00:22:59,820 --> 00:23:00,820 help 552 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,709 disabled people to regain control 553 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:05,849 of their muscles. 554 00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:08,069 It's a very similar process. 555 00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:10,199 And working together in that 556 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,309 area is 557 00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:14,699 microphone number two, please. 558 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:16,919 Yeah, I'm wondering about the detail if 559 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,109 homing pigeons, the 560 00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:21,149 way I understood is that they always 561 00:23:21,150 --> 00:23:23,219 return to their home, but now I so 562 00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:25,379 that you can actually transport their 563 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:27,509 home somewhere else and then 564 00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:29,879 they just accept this as you have 565 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,769 to train them. 566 00:23:31,770 --> 00:23:34,139 Well, these are special pigeons. 567 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:35,219 They are bred. 568 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:37,410 They have certain genetic material. 569 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,679 And you can you can train them to get 570 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,869 used to these mobile lofts, 571 00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:44,969 but you can only move these for a couple 572 00:23:44,970 --> 00:23:47,399 of times. So you can use 573 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,379 one of these pigeons for a couple of 574 00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:50,549 weeks at the front. 575 00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:52,829 And then you have to they get confused 576 00:23:52,830 --> 00:23:53,819 after a couple. 577 00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:56,039 If you move the loft around three 578 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,060 or four times, 579 00:23:58,590 --> 00:23:59,919 they get confused about that. 580 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,279 So you can use one of those pigeons 581 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,869 for a couple of weeks and then you have 582 00:24:03,870 --> 00:24:04,870 to retire them. 583 00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:07,949 We have a question from the Internet. 584 00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:10,199 Well, I think you actually have 585 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,249 two questions. 586 00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:13,289 First one is, how long would it take to 587 00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:15,509 train or retrain a pigeon 588 00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:18,029 into a live drone? 589 00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:20,039 And the second question is, is the time 590 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,569 of life drones over, 591 00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:25,109 considering that the drones are advancing 592 00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:26,110 very fast? 593 00:24:27,060 --> 00:24:30,509 First of all, training these pigeons 594 00:24:30,510 --> 00:24:32,699 starts about at 595 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:35,069 the age of four weeks 596 00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:36,659 when they are four weeks old, they are 597 00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:38,549 taken away from their nests and they are 598 00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:40,769 trained to accept a 599 00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:42,869 new loft, which takes about another 600 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:43,569 four weeks. 601 00:24:43,570 --> 00:24:45,719 So when they're eight weeks old, they 602 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,769 are fully trained. 603 00:24:46,770 --> 00:24:49,349 And you can in these war situations, 604 00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:51,449 you can take them to the front and use 605 00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:52,949 them for another couple of weeks. 606 00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:54,769 That's why you need so many of these. 607 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:56,219 You had two hundred fifty thousand in 608 00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:58,409 World War Two because they 609 00:24:58,410 --> 00:24:59,909 had to be trained for a couple of weeks 610 00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:01,499 and after a couple of weeks, they were 611 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:02,500 obsolete. 612 00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:05,609 The second part is the age, 613 00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:08,609 the era of live drones over. 614 00:25:08,610 --> 00:25:10,709 I'd say 615 00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:11,710 yes and no. 616 00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:15,899 The era of these pigeons 617 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:18,269 or bats is obviously 618 00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:19,379 over. 619 00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:22,679 I mean, the United Kingdom stopped 620 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,959 its pigeon army 621 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,209 in fifty seven. 622 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:29,609 The Swiss army kept it till nineteen 623 00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:30,610 ninety six. 624 00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:33,659 But as of today, and 625 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:35,699 nobody uses these pigeons anymore for 626 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:36,689 armies. 627 00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:38,999 But if 628 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,249 we look at what's being done right 629 00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:44,429 now in 2014, working with these insects, 630 00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:46,589 it's obviously a different kind of 631 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:49,019 live drone that's being developed. 632 00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:51,209 And I think that's that's going on really 633 00:25:51,210 --> 00:25:53,279 strongly. And the question 634 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,529 is, is this all what's 635 00:25:55,530 --> 00:25:57,779 being done, these insects 636 00:25:57,780 --> 00:26:00,549 for search and rescue missions? 637 00:26:00,550 --> 00:26:02,919 I mean, if the CIA says it's pigeon 638 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,749 missions are still classified, you have 639 00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:06,699 to ask yourself what might they be 640 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,139 working on? 641 00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:10,599 And I'm very skeptical. 642 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,969 I think there might be a lot going on 643 00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:14,890 that's not in the public domain. 644 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,129 Microphone number four, please. 645 00:26:18,130 --> 00:26:21,039 I don't know if it was already answered 646 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,649 correctly. I just wanted a clarification. 647 00:26:23,650 --> 00:26:26,239 For how long do you have to. 648 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,389 Well, have a pigeon 649 00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:30,589 at a loft so it accepts that 650 00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:31,599 it's its home 651 00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:35,449 about four weeks. 652 00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:37,819 No, I mean, when we like 653 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,439 when a company moves somewhere 654 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,719 and do you have to stay 655 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,669 there for some some time so that 656 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,039 the pigeons. 657 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,199 Well, so this is where I live 658 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,059 now. Yeah. 659 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:53,769 If that's the for which 660 00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:56,109 I think is 661 00:26:57,580 --> 00:26:59,410 as far as I understand, 662 00:27:00,670 --> 00:27:03,009 science does not 663 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:05,079 still not fully know how these 664 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,250 pigeons find home. 665 00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:10,779 It is considered to be a mixture 666 00:27:10,780 --> 00:27:14,169 of possibly 667 00:27:14,170 --> 00:27:16,539 using the electromagnetic 668 00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:17,859 field of the earth, 669 00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:21,519 also using smell and using 670 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,979 some sort of map visual keys. 671 00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:27,579 But as far as I understand, it takes 672 00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:29,799 about four weeks to get a pigeon used to 673 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,709 its new home so that it will 674 00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:34,809 go back there and not to where it was 675 00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:35,829 born. 676 00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:37,779 OK, thanks. Microphone number three, 677 00:27:37,780 --> 00:27:38,780 please. 678 00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:41,169 Again, a question on pigeons 679 00:27:42,370 --> 00:27:45,369 and how could you distinguish between 680 00:27:45,370 --> 00:27:47,679 a friendly and 681 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,839 animate the pigeons of 682 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,789 the enemy that just because of the 683 00:27:51,790 --> 00:27:54,489 direction where they fly from? 684 00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:56,469 Yeah, I mean, they look like pigeons. 685 00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:59,139 Now, in your in your presentation, 686 00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:01,779 you told it was forbidden to shoot and 687 00:28:01,780 --> 00:28:03,849 pigeons. So how well the people 688 00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:04,599 know it. Yes. 689 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,509 Our parents already knew that that 690 00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:09,639 fine for shooting pigeons 691 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,139 that applied to 692 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:13,179 the United Kingdom. 693 00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:15,609 So inside of England, people 694 00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:17,769 were fined if they killed 695 00:28:17,770 --> 00:28:19,869 or molested homing pigeons because these 696 00:28:19,870 --> 00:28:22,239 were needed for the war effort, 697 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,819 obviously at the front. 698 00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:26,889 Well, it might have 699 00:28:26,890 --> 00:28:29,109 happened that friendly fire or caught 700 00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:31,269 some pigeons, I 701 00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:32,270 guess. 702 00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:34,140 Microphone number six, please. 703 00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:37,629 I was wondering if you have found out 704 00:28:37,630 --> 00:28:39,159 anything about dolphins. 705 00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:43,659 Yes, I read something about dolphins 706 00:28:43,660 --> 00:28:46,449 and bombs, 707 00:28:46,450 --> 00:28:49,569 dolphins being trained to to find. 708 00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:50,499 So I understand. 709 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:52,899 I don't know if that's what you mean. 710 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:55,039 It was just too much material. 711 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,559 There's there's a lot going on. 712 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,659 There's obviously a lot of animals 713 00:28:58,660 --> 00:29:01,210 being used that were used. 714 00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:04,479 I don't know if you could 715 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,089 say something about that or. 716 00:29:07,090 --> 00:29:08,829 No, no. 717 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:11,019 I've just heard it from 718 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:13,329 oh, I read it somewhere. 719 00:29:13,330 --> 00:29:15,549 And so I thought, yeah, 720 00:29:15,550 --> 00:29:17,739 I came across it, but I chose 721 00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:19,959 to focus on on birds and just 722 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,449 do the little excursion on dogs 723 00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:23,799 and those cats. 724 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,869 OK, but yes, dolphins 725 00:29:25,870 --> 00:29:28,329 also dolphins are considered very 726 00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:30,399 intelligent animals and can also 727 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,349 be trained to do certain tasks. 728 00:29:33,710 --> 00:29:35,689 They were running out of time, one last 729 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:37,399 quick question here from microphone to 730 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,389 please. 731 00:29:38,390 --> 00:29:40,789 Thank you. Did you find any evidence 732 00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:42,949 of actual use, abuse 733 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:45,499 of animals as biological 734 00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:48,169 warfare carriers or something like that? 735 00:29:48,170 --> 00:29:50,809 Um, biological 736 00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:52,789 warfare carriers, yes. 737 00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:55,489 Like the traditional disease that 738 00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:58,159 catapults if it was it was 739 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,189 after World War Two, the British 740 00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:03,289 actually did research 741 00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:06,409 in that area to use pigeons to drop, 742 00:30:06,410 --> 00:30:08,509 um, bacteria 743 00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:09,709 or what have you. 744 00:30:09,710 --> 00:30:13,099 But since 745 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,199 other technical means 746 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,359 were being developed 747 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,409 at that time, we're talking about the 748 00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:20,119 1950s where 749 00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:24,589 technical developments 750 00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:26,239 were becoming better and better. 751 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,459 And these pigeon programs were eventually 752 00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:30,589 stopped in the 1950s. 753 00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:32,869 But, yes, people thought about 754 00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:35,329 using pigeons also to to spread 755 00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:39,649 whatever diseases, 756 00:30:39,650 --> 00:30:41,510 biological warfare. 757 00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:44,399 Thank you for your time. 758 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,459 Can you please give 759 00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:47,480 a warm round of applause?